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  #11  
Old 03-07-2006, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WagnerX5
IMO.

I'm not going to bust into how much you should trust a government because I could go on for days but as far as this incident. How does science explain the Pentagon blowing up? No wreckage on the ground, not anything. And where are the 6 ton titanium motors? Just gone? How come the Pentagon didn't have the same "wing span" impact the two towers had...just a single hole.

Not to mention they're going to tell us they find some guys passport in perfect condition yet the black boxes and all other evidence is gone? I'm not even going to get into the gold factor in the second video.
I don't trust anything but my own eyes. I was in DC a few weeks later for a conference and drove by and viewed it from a distance that was an impact pure and simple.
This is a great dicussion but I distinctly remember seeing some semblance of fuelsalage at the pentagon that morning when the news choppers were up beore they were grounded. If not a plane what are you going to hit that with? The ring was designed in sections to make that kind of damage as limiting as possible...explosions go up and out...what the ring suffered went in...also the impact of the plane at 200mph then the heat from the fires broke everything down as far as the passport...that is a choas theory who know what things have to line up to get that to fly out, maybe the guy had it in is hands at the time of impact and it blew up and out from the force of the explosion. The saudis hit it sqaure which is rather amazing at that speed and angle.

This debate is going to rage on and on, but I like to think I am pretty intelligent guy and if it some how comes out that this was a conspiracy to encourage our governement to have the green light to go to war I will eat crow. Until then, I am listening for the reasons why we any element would want this to happen and what was to be gained.
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  #12  
Old 03-07-2006, 05:24 PM
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..make it happn' capn'
 
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To be gained is a full on butt load of money by the defense industry of the United States.....not to mention the economy as a whole. War generates insane profits for a nation (that wins). Take a look at defense budgets in between wars...they are tiny..compared to the budgeted spending during a conflict..esspecially an open conflict like the middle east.
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  #13  
Old 03-07-2006, 05:27 PM
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A theory is not a fact. A theory means: abastract knowledge or reasoning
(abstract having no reference to material objects or specific examples, not applied or practical, hard to understand and lost in thought, taken out or separated.

Now I apply this structure of thought when asked if I think Man really did walk on the Moon or do you think Princess Diana was murdered what happened to Lord Luton or one of the most unknown Conspiracy out there is that the "yanks" gased all the Jews but made it look like it was Germany/Hitler?? yes I know shocking but it is out there.

I'm afraid that 911 follows on in the same line for me. Terrible shocking events I believe that it was down to the hand of Al-Kaheda.
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  #14  
Old 03-07-2006, 05:27 PM
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Not buying it...it is a zero some game...for the defence industry to do well the money has to come from somewhere else. I have a port with defense stocks...they did ok over the last three years but not gang busters. Tech and health care did just was well over the same period.
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  #15  
Old 03-07-2006, 06:25 PM
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I don't think a bureaucracy, by nature, can have the kind of wild imagination that is required to pull off a 9-11. Nothing to gain, everything to lose. This is not like shooting the Arch Duke Ferdinand...or blowing up the USS Maine. And, it's less than a zero-sum game if you consider the (global) stock market losses, travel industry losses, and the cost of the response, in terms of cash, lives, and national debt. IMO the flash prior to impact could have been from the shock wave that precedes any airliner approaching mach1--any pilots out there who can better describe this? Tankers feel this when refueling--don't know the exact term.

Finally, why would OBL take credit for it? He had this little Lord of the Flys thing going on in Afghanistan and he just got too cocky. Don't forget--Lockerbie, the Marine Barracks in Lebanon, the Nairobi? Embassy Bombings, etc. These are precursor events. What about the 1996 WTC bombing? Conspiracy? No, van full of explosives. I've seen the apartments in Delray Beach where the hijackers lived during flight school. Those are real. The conspiracy if any, lies in what our government knew in the 1990s and failed to visualize in terms of a growing threat.
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Last edited by fln8tive; 03-08-2006 at 11:45 AM.
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  #16  
Old 03-08-2006, 01:40 AM
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Thanks for this post Wagner, and the interesting discussion that's followed...
Without taking any side, I think there are some incredibly important questions that have not been answered about 9/11.
  • -"9 of the hi-jackers are alive & free." Any insights?
  • -Possible military engagement with the planes. Even without claiming that the WTC planed weren't passenger planes, many analysts point to a more-likely veil of secrecy about military fighter engagement of the planes close to impacts of the Pentagon & the downed plane. I don't know what standard OP would be in such a case, but it's not inconceivable that those planes were fired on in an attempt to avoid further damage/ variables (hence the small impacts without wings or engines). This is not a story that the government would want to discuss openly for obvious reasons, though from a military stand-point, it may have been deemed necessary. Any thoughts?
  • -Is it wrong to want more info when 3000+ US citizens die? Families of WTC victims don't think so.
  • -Lastly, it is certainly true that the "Osama bin Laden" in the confession tape would never be wearing gold jewelry. Since it's forbidden for Muslim men to wear gold, it would be like he dressed up as a woman for the taping! Among his "fundamentalist" audience, this would never go unnoticed.

Last edited by Mindfull; 03-08-2006 at 01:53 AM.
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  #17  
Old 03-08-2006, 10:08 AM
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where is the proof that 9 of the high jackers are still walking the planet? Where is that information from?
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  #18  
Old 03-08-2006, 11:34 AM
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oh god what's next? Elvis is alive, Tupac & Big E are somewhere in the carribean hanging out??? how can people believe this crap? it happened and that's it!!!
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  #19  
Old 03-08-2006, 12:51 PM
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While this video might seem a bit extreme, we must consider why it does - we've been fed (truthful or untruthful) information by the government/media about these attacts. It's been five years since the attacts, and these kind of things haven't been getting any publicity at all. It seems impossible just because we don't want to believe it. Looking at what the administration is doing right now, what was brought up in the video, doesn't make what was suggested in the video too far a stretch of the imagination, as depressing a thought as that is.

Investigated you say? Please, we've been TOLD they've investigated everything, but next to no results have been published regarding the failure of the steel and building materials and the exact problems that caused the collapse. In fact, months after the disaster, most of the steel was shipped to China to be melted down. Some whistle blowers have claimed this happened before much of any investigate could be carried out. We have to remember one thing, every administration is secretive and lies about what they've done, what they're doing, and what they will do. Many times, this is necessary to maintain a certain level of calmness in society. In this case however, I don't find it to be in the country's national security interest to lie about the attacts, unless there is indeed something to hide...
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  #20  
Old 03-08-2006, 02:40 PM
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The Discovery Channel or TLC did a whole hour on why the buildings fell

They went to Fishkill and walked amoungst the pieces of twisted steel and pointing out everything. The guy that designed the damn towers was one of the moderators of the discussion. Are you telling me "the MAN" got to them too? Like Carlos said...it happened...its done...let it go.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jwalsh22
While this video might seem a bit extreme, we must consider why it does - we've been fed (truthful or untruthful) information by the government/media about these attacts. It's been five years since the attacts, and these kind of things haven't been getting any publicity at all. It seems impossible just because we don't want to believe it. Looking at what the administration is doing right now, what was brought up in the video, doesn't make what was suggested in the video too far a stretch of the imagination, as depressing a thought as that is.

Investigated you say? Please, we've been TOLD they've investigated everything, but next to no results have been published regarding the failure of the steel and building materials and the exact problems that caused the collapse. In fact, months after the disaster, most of the steel was shipped to China to be melted down. Some whistle blowers have claimed this happened before much of any investigate could be carried out. We have to remember one thing, every administration is secretive and lies about what they've done, what they're doing, and what they will do. Many times, this is necessary to maintain a certain level of calmness in society. In this case however, I don't find it to be in the country's national security interest to lie about the attacts, unless there is indeed something to hide...
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