this is gonna be interesting competitor to RS4 and new M3 - Page 2

x5GuyInLA · #11 06-03-2006, 03:38 PM

i doubt the new C will have 500hp. Comparing the power output between the current models, there's a difference of over 100hp between the C55 to the E55 and 130hp difference with the S55, even though they're all 5.5L V8s. I think it has something to do with emmissions.

In any case, it will still be a powerful car, although I don't think they'll make it faster or as powerful as the E or S classes.

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SANguru · #12 06-03-2006, 03:55 PM

latest car and driver segment on Speed channel and CAR magazine also confirmed the time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DINANM3

hold on a sec. You are saying th ML63 the MB suv matched the 997c2s and beat the e46m3csl on the nurb. Was the ml a production model or a prototype for testing. I just cant believe it. It only ha 10lbs per hp and compared to the other cars your talking about its not enough. And its and suv. How could this be possible. Are you sure this ml63 isnt like that prototype V12 X5 that killed everthing on the Nurb a while back with hans stuck driving. Whew did you read this. I have to see it for myself. I just cant believe it.

SANguru · #13 06-03-2006, 03:56 PM

they will all be using the 6.2 v8 now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by x5GuyInLA

i doubt the new C will have 500hp. Comparing the power output between the current models, there's a difference of over 100hp between the C55 to the E55 and 130hp difference with the S55, even though they're all 5.5L V8s. I think it has something to do with emmissions.

In any case, it will still be a powerful car, although I don't think they'll make it faster or as powerful as the E or S classes.

asawadude · #14 06-03-2006, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SANguru

I don't know about that.. they tested the ML63 at Nurburgring and it matched the 997 C2S which means it would even kill the E46 m3 CSL.. and bear in mind... that's the ML63 which weights 5000lbs vs 3800lbs on the new C class.

I'm not disputing what you're saying, but man, that is just hard to fathom.

x5GuyInLA · #15 06-03-2006, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SANguru

they will all be using the 6.2 v8 now.

i understand that, but what i'm saying is that in the previous 5.5L engine that they used for their AMG 55s, there is a difference in hp between the models. the old 5.5L could put out 493hp, but they only had 362hp in the C55...why would they detune the engine so that it puts out 130hp less than the same engine in the E or the S? that leads me to believe that the new c63 won't have the full 503hp that the 6.2L engine is capable of. it will have the same engine, i just don't think that it will have 503 hp. i don't know the reasons for detuning an engine except for maybe the emmissions, but we'll just have to wait and see when it comes out.

SANguru · #16 06-03-2006, 05:24 PM

old C CLK's were not supercharged. That was the only reason. It was not detuned, just normally aspirated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by x5GuyInLA

i understand that, but what i'm saying is that in the previous 5.5L engine that they used for their AMG 55s, there is a difference in hp between the models. the old 5.5L could put out 493hp, but they only had 362hp in the C55...why would they detune the engine so that it puts out 130hp less than the same engine in the E or the S? that leads me to believe that the new c63 won't have the full 503hp that the 6.2L engine is capable of. it will have the same engine, i just don't think that it will have 503 hp. i don't know the reasons for detuning an engine except for maybe the emmissions, but we'll just have to wait and see when it comes out.

DINANM3 · #17 06-03-2006, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by x5GuyInLA

i understand that, but what i'm saying is that in the previous 5.5L engine that they used for their AMG 55s, there is a difference in hp between the models. the old 5.5L could put out 493hp, but they only had 362hp in the C55...why would they detune the engine so that it puts out 130hp less than the same engine in the E or the S? that leads me to believe that the new c63 won't have the full 503hp that the 6.2L engine is capable of. it will have the same engine, i just don't think that it will have 503 hp. i don't know the reasons for detuning an engine except for maybe the emmissions, but we'll just have to wait and see when it comes out.

The C class 6.2 engine will def have less hp than the ML. 2 reasons why are the exhaust system and the car not being able to handle it as well as a ml. I haerd its gonna be around 465hp. Which is still alot

SANguru · #18 06-03-2006, 05:27 PM

no kidding...

... I did read 1 caveat about the Nordsheifter time for the C2S that might put some sense into this. The C2S was tested in misty/drizzly weather... regardless though 8min 13 is damn fast.

Quote:

Originally Posted by asawadude

I'm not disputing what you're saying, but man, that is just hard to fathom.

asawadude · #19 06-03-2006, 05:27 PM

Here is a list of unofficial Nurburging Nordschleife lap times on supercars.net, evidently compiled from various books, magazines, and websites:

http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?vie...ID=0&tID=10073

and some lap times...

7:49 --- 158.124 km/h – BMW X5 Le Mans, 700 PS/~2000 kg, Hans-Joachim Stuck
7:50 --- 157.787 km/h -- BMW E46 M3 CSL (sport auto 08/03)
7:59 --- 154.822 km/h -- Porsche 997 Carrera S, PASM setting “Performance”, (Walter Roehrl WHEELS 06/ 2004)
8:02 --- 153.858 km/h -- Porsche 997 Carrera S, PASM setting “Sport”, (Walter Roehrl WHEELS 06/ 04)
8:05 --- 152.907 km/h -- Porsche 997 Carrera S, PASM settino “Standard”, Walter Roehrl (WHEELS 06/04)
8:05 --- 152.907 km/h -- Porsche 997 Carrera S, 355PS/1461kg (sport auto 05/05)

Here's where the ML65 slots in:

8:13 --- 150.426 km/h -- BMW M5 (E60), 507 PS/1844 kg (sport auto 12/04)
8:13 --- 150.426 km/h -- Lotus Esprit Sport 350, 354 PS/1324 kg (sport auto 05/99)
8:13 --- 150.426 km/h -- Dodge Viper SRT-10, 506 hp (sport auto, 10/04)
8:14 --- 150.120 km/h -- Mercedes SL 65 AMG, 612 PS/2049 kg (sport auto 01/05), http://speed.supercars.net/PitLane?viewThread=y&gID=0&fID=2&tID=23337
8:14.98 149.824 km/h -- Mitsubishi Carisma Evo VIII GSR MR 8 (Best Motoring video "Carrera Invasion")
8:15 --- 149.818 km/h – BMW Z4 M Roadster, 343 PS/1485 kg, www.autoexpress.co.uk/driven/64720/bmw_z4_m_roadster.html
8:15 --- 149.818 km/h -- Alpina Roadster S, 300 PS/1416 kg (sport auto 6/05), www.supercars.net/PitLane?viewThread=y&gID=0&fID=2&tID=44295
8:15 --- 149.818 km/h -- Corvette C6, 404 PS/1491 kg (sport auto 08/05), www.supercars.net/PitLane?viewThread=y&gID=0&fID=0&tID=46738
8:15* -- 149.818 km/h -- Holden GTS (00), *estimated
8:15 --- 149.818 km/h -- Porsche 997 Carrera 2, Walter Roehrl (WHEELS 06/04)
8:15 --- 149.818 km/h -- Ruf 911 CTR 2, 520 hp

Obvious, different days, different tires, different drivers, different weather... take it for what it's worth.

BTW - Car and Driver posts a lap time of 8:40 for the ML65. The 26 sec difference between Sport Auto magazine time is a major - one of these two times does not reflect the ML65's true performance. A 3rd source is needed to make the measure more accurate.

http://www.caranddriver.com/previews...amg-page3.html

Draw your conclusions.

Note the 7:49 lap posted by Han Stuck in the V12 X5 a couple years back. Could a V-10 X5 run similar times? I'd certainly like to see it.

SANguru · #20 06-03-2006, 05:31 PM

good catch.. the car and driver person said S in the show. It should be 997.

Quote:

Originally Posted by asawadude

Here is a list of unofficial Nurburging Nordschleife lap times on supercars.net, evidently compiled from various books, magazines, and websites:

http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?vie...ID=0&tID=10073

and some lap times...

7:49 --- 158.124 km/h – BMW X5 Le Mans, 700 PS/~2000 kg, Hans-Joachim Stuck
7:50 --- 157.787 km/h -- BMW E46 M3 CSL (sport auto 08/03)
7:59 --- 154.822 km/h -- Porsche 997 Carrera S, PASM setting “Performance”, (Walter Roehrl WHEELS 06/ 2004)
8:02 --- 153.858 km/h -- Porsche 997 Carrera S, PASM setting “Sport”, (Walter Roehrl WHEELS 06/ 04)
8:05 --- 152.907 km/h -- Porsche 997 Carrera S, PASM settino “Standard”, Walter Roehrl (WHEELS 06/04)
8:05 --- 152.907 km/h -- Porsche 997 Carrera S, 355PS/1461kg (sport auto 05/05)

Here's where the ML65 slots in:

8:13 --- 150.426 km/h -- BMW M5 (E60), 507 PS/1844 kg (sport auto 12/04)
8:13 --- 150.426 km/h -- Lotus Esprit Sport 350, 354 PS/1324 kg (sport auto 05/99)
8:13 --- 150.426 km/h -- Dodge Viper SRT-10, 506 hp (sport auto, 10/04)
8:14 --- 150.120 km/h -- Mercedes SL 65 AMG, 612 PS/2049 kg (sport auto 01/05), http://speed.supercars.net/PitLane?viewThread=y&gID=0&fID=2&tID=23337
8:14.98 149.824 km/h -- Mitsubishi Carisma Evo VIII GSR MR 8 (Best Motoring video "Carrera Invasion")
8:15 --- 149.818 km/h – BMW Z4 M Roadster, 343 PS/1485 kg, www.autoexpress.co.uk/driven/64720/bmw_z4_m_roadster.html
8:15 --- 149.818 km/h -- Alpina Roadster S, 300 PS/1416 kg (sport auto 6/05), www.supercars.net/PitLane?viewThread=y&gID=0&fID=2&tID=44295
8:15 --- 149.818 km/h -- Corvette C6, 404 PS/1491 kg (sport auto 08/05), www.supercars.net/PitLane?viewThread=y&gID=0&fID=0&tID=46738
8:15* -- 149.818 km/h -- Holden GTS (00), *estimated
8:15 --- 149.818 km/h -- Porsche 997 Carrera 2, Walter Roehrl (WHEELS 06/04)
8:15 --- 149.818 km/h -- Ruf 911 CTR 2, 520 hp

BTW - Car and Driver posts a lap time of 8:40 for the ML65.
http://www.caranddriver.com/previews...amg-page3.html

Draw your conclusions. Note the 7:49 lap posted by Han Stuck in the V12 X5 a couple years back. Could a V-10 X5 run similar times? I'd certainly like to see it.

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