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#1
09-20-2006, 01:59 AM
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Military/War discussion
We've had a couple threads in the last 24 hours get shut down due to personal attacks. From my point of view I have not personally attacked anyone. I certainly have not cursed at anyone (that cannot be said for all). I admit to having been rather sarcastic in a few instances to prove a point, but I don't think I did anything worse than that. If I offended anyone, then I am sorry and that was not my intention. If we are going to discuss controversial subjects related to the Military and to War (i.e. War on Terror/Terrorism, Iraq, etc.) then everyone is going to have to be willing to have discussion with those who they do not agree without taking it personally. And I don't mean those who you disagree with slightly, I mean those who you disagree with 100%. In war there are two sides, and usually not everyone in the world thinks the same side is in the right. If it were that simple, there probably wouldn't be a war in the first place. Yet, it seems that any time I suggest that perhaps the American military is in the wrong, I am told that I have insulted some members who are part of the military. Well, that is not my intention. I'm pretty sure that most soldiers of all millitaries worldwide are brave and patriotic and believe they are doing good, or else they probably would not be putting their lives on the line. So if I compare an American soldier to the soldier on the other side of the battlefield, that should not be taken as an insult. But somehow it is. My understanding is that this is an International forum, not specifically an American forum. I can only imagine the chaos there would be in these discussions if there were any forum members from the Middle East or Central Asian countries. Then you would be dealing with people who don't have centrist views like me (I tend to think both sides in most wars are equally wrong), but they would be 180 degrees opposite of what is normal for this board (they perhaps may think of American troops the same way most Americans think of Al-Queda). If you are going to participate in these discussions, then you have to be civil and not insult people for their viewpoints. If everyone wants me to stop posting in these threads, I will. Then these discussions will no longer be debates and will instead just be cheerleading sessions except perhaps for blondboi occasionally saying how much he hates George Bush. Perhaps that is what most of you want, I'm not sure.
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 my experience on X5world when I spend too much time posting in political threads in the lounge... 
Last edited by Eric5273; 09-20-2006 at 02:07 AM. 
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#2
09-20-2006, 03:19 AM
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Speaking as an ex-soldier and having lost many of my friends in various theatres of operations.
One of the reasons we did, what we did was so people had the right to voice there opinions and express their views whether I agreed with them or not. IMHO If we do not allow the voice of opposition then all we will create is more friction and ultimately conflict. Remember that from a politicians point of view, conflict and 'war' is just another political tool to implement foreign and domestic policy. I always remember a piece of graffiti I saw, roughly translated it said "If you think you know the answers then you dont understand the questions!" I think that to me says it all
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#5
09-20-2006, 05:51 AM
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Quote:
Means he has his popcorn and is ready for the show.
__________________
An unwavering defender of those I see worth protecting. "promote the general welfare, not provide the general welfare" We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
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#6
09-20-2006, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
 It is true that many Australians and Europeans want to see Americans dead because of what their President ordered them to do (ie. Iraq, War on Terror), but at the end of the day they are just following orders!, just like any Cop, Soldier or Patriot would do!. If you hate George Bush or Tony Blair or John Howard for their invlovement in a war that removed Saddam Hussein from power and freed the Iraqi people from a brutal dictatorship, Fine!, just don't take out your anger on the millitary or the countrymen it serves! And even then!, Our leaders have done what any leader would do if their country and way of life was attacked!, they banded together in the "Coalition of the Willing" and returned fire on the evil that attacked US ALL !!
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My much loved machines... 1990 E32 BMW 735i - Daley Driver 1983 Okuma LB15 Twin Turret NC turning center - Money Maker! 1985 Suzuki Sierra - Off-road thrasher and mobile shooting platform  1981 HMT NH26 20HP 30" Gap Bed Engine Lathe - Money Maker! 1966 Lancia Flavia 1800 Coupe - Weekend toy 1941 South Bend 9" Model C Workshop Lathe - Antique restoration project. 
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#7
09-20-2006, 06:08 AM
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Best way to describe all of this can be taken from a line from "Crimson Tide"
"...all they cared about with me is that I knew how to push the button, with you, they seem to want you to know why..."
__________________
An unwavering defender of those I see worth protecting. "promote the general welfare, not provide the general welfare" We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
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#8
09-20-2006, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Tell me mate are you an ex-squaddie? (soldier)
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#9
09-20-2006, 06:27 AM
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H'mm
can't comment on the other leaders but Tony Blair's big mistake was taking us the UK to war on a lie. Also a ilegal war at that. His career took a down turn from that time never to really recover and he lost alot of respect from the public. Yes I would say alot of the bristish public see Tony as George's puppy which ain't a good thing. The day Tony leaves office will be a good day time for a new face with new idea. That though is another worry. Yes no doubt it is best to be rid off Saddam Hussein but at what cost to that country. Why then if it was simply about removing Saddam Hussein (which by the way was not what we were not told at the time of going to war) have they not then moved on to Robert Mugabe @ Zimbabwe. Did the war in Iraq increase the threat of terror towards the UK well to be honest I don't think so it has always been there and will always be there and if a terroist really want to get you they will.
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#10
09-20-2006, 07:13 AM
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What ever happened to sniper squads, why do we need full scale wars now
__________________
An unwavering defender of those I see worth protecting. "promote the general welfare, not provide the general welfare" We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
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