Illegal Immigration not a crime.

Quicksilver · #1 02-14-2007, 02:29 AM

The standard banal canard of xenophobes is that illegal immigration is a crime, but it's not, at least not at the present time. Illegal immigration is not a felony (like murder), nor is it a misdemeanor (like drunk driving usually is). Rather, "Improper Entry By Alien" is covered by Title 8, Section 1325 of the United States Code and "Civil Penalties for Failure to Depart" are covered by Section 1324d. http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/caseco...1325.htmlWhile these code sections provide for penalties such as fines and incarceration, the maximum jail time for a first offense is six months, which would make these offenses comparable to a speeding ticket, what is commonly known in the law as "an infraction."

Under federal law, an infraction is not a crime; it is a civil offense. And in practice, very few people who are arrested for illegal immigration are ever convicted. They are usually booked and released. If and when they show up for their court proceedings, they are almost always able to choose to remove themselves from the United States voluntarily rather than being convicted of improper entry or failure to depart. A rough equivalent would be the choice to attend traffic school rather than have a traffic ticket appear on your driving record.

There are probably some 11 million people in the United States who are subject to arrest for improper entry or failure to depart. As a practical matter, it would be nigh on impossible to apprehend these people, so the federal government spends very little time doing so. Rather, there are token and selective enforcement efforts by the federal government that give the illusion that something is being done, much like the War on Drugs. And then there's the misguided enforcement efforts of towns like Hazleton. To wit, the penalties for improper entry and/or failure to depart the United States are the sole province of the federal government. As such, Hazleton will almost certainly find itself on the wrong end of a lawsuit in federal court any day now.

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Eric5273 · #2 02-14-2007, 02:33 AM

I can't be certain of this, but I'm pretty sure most taxpayers would rather not have their tax money being used to pay for non-citizens to sit in jail for a few weeks awaiting their immigration trials.

Quicksilver · #3 02-14-2007, 02:37 AM

You mean the same way taxpayers have to pay for illegal immigrants health care? Hmmm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric5273

I can't be certain of this, but I'm pretty sure most taxpayers would rather not have their tax money being used to pay for non-citizens to sit in jail for a few weeks awaiting their immigration trials.

xnsf · #4 02-14-2007, 02:43 AM

YAY!!! Quicksilver, you're back...the lounge is different without you helping to fuel it

PersonaNonGrata · #5 02-14-2007, 03:04 AM

I think that comparing federal immigration laws to state law is sort of like comparing apples to oranges. Immigration and the territorial integrity of the country is a compelling enough federal interest for the feds to kind of do whatever they can and part of that are the voluntary departures. If those who voluntarily depart return without authorization, then I believe there is a federal criminal law that kicks in with a 10 year sentence to go along with it.

I am not necessarily a fan of ICE or CPT but I am also not a fan of not preserving the integrity of American borders. (That includes you too Canada!)

Quicksilver · #6 02-14-2007, 03:04 AM

Just decided to sit back and watch the wabbit run..........

Quote:

Originally Posted by xnsf

YAY!!! Quicksilver, you're back...the lounge is different without you helping to fuel it

Quicksilver · #7 02-14-2007, 03:14 AM

Your analysis may be correct. However i wonder if in reality what bothers people most is the failure of the authorities to enforce the law, and the decision of those who decide for a better life to violate the law to achieve their goal. Personally, like many other issues that often have excuse after excuse by those on both sides, i'm just tired of the hipocracy of them all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PersonaNonGrata

I think that comparing federal immigration laws to state law is sort of like comparing apples to oranges. Immigration and the territorial integrity of the country is a compelling enough federal interest for the feds to kind of do whatever they can and part of that are the voluntary departures. If those who voluntarily depart return without authorization, then I believe there is a federal criminal law that kicks in with a 10 year sentence to go along with it.

I am not necessarily a fan of ICE or CPT but I am also not a fan of not preserving the integrity of American borders. (That includes you too Canada!)

PersonaNonGrata · #8 02-14-2007, 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quicksilver

Your analysis may be correct. However i wonder if in reality what bothers people most is the failure of the authorities to enforce the law, and the decision of those who decide for a better life to violate the law to achieve their goal. Personally, like many other issues that often have excuse after excuse by those on both sides, i'm just tired of the hipocracy of them all.

Definitely. There is tremendous frustration on both sides of the issue. It is a dirty secret that nobody really wants to face. Specifically, the thousands and thousands of illegal immigrants working in factories, construction, hotels, agriculture, etc. There's so much talk about these people yet nobody really wants to do anything about it perhaps knowing that our economy would take a big hit.

On the other side of things, there is frustration and anger about having to support illegal immigrants for uninsured and unpaid medical services and the strain that they put on the education system. Illegal immigrants have children here and they attend our schools to compete for resources. Like it or not, illegal immigration does cost us a ton of money even before considering the costs to enforce the immigration laws.

There absolutely needs to be major reforms but there still have to be strict controls on immigration. It's not going to be easy but I still think that eliminating the citizenship-by-birth would be a good start.

xnsf · #9 02-14-2007, 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PersonaNonGrata

It's not going to be easy but I still think that eliminating the citizenship-by-birth would be a good start.

interesting...i guess you would be one of those people who think natural citizens should take the citizenship test along with immigrants? i think that wouldn't be that bad of an idea...

Quicksilver · #10 02-14-2007, 03:54 AM

Why should natural citizens take the citizenship test along with immigrants who have come to this country leagally and have applied for citizenship?

What were talking about is ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xnsf

interesting...i guess you would be one of those people who think natural citizens should take the citizenship test along with immigrants? i think that wouldn't be that bad of an idea...

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