Go SPAIN - Page 4

Eric5273 · #31 05-31-2007, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WagnerX5

Again you're in some sort of search for Utopia where nobody cheats and everything is fair, it doesn't exist.

Please, tell me what country you aspire for the US to be?

We need one simple change to our political system. We need publicly financed elections.

Without that, it doesn't matter what changes are made to our political system. It would become corrupt overnight due to our economic system. Capitalism and Democracy do not mix. The end result of those two is Fascism. This Famous Book explains it quite well.

A little side story here:

Yesterday I was in my car at around 7pm and happen to turn on WABC Radio where this nut-case Mark Levin is on the radio in the evening. For all those who have no idea who this guy is, he kind of sounds like they gave a right-wing Archie Bunker the microphone and told him to yell and scream at the audience.

Anyway, the subject of discussion on this right-wing show was the current immigration legislation. And as expected, hoards of conservatives were calling in complaining about how their Republican leaders have betrayed them. So then one caller told the host that he knew a way to get these politicians to pay attention. He said in the past he had donated money to his congressman's campaign. He said when he called his congressman's office, if he didn't say who he was, they didn't seem to care what he had to say. But as soon as he told them he was a donor and that he was considering never donating money again if his congressman voted for the bill -- then of course they seemed very interested in what he had to say. So of course, Mr. Levin (the show host) agreed with the caller that most likely politicians will only pay attention to those who donate money. His solution? He encouraged all audence members who have donated money in the past to call their congressional reps and threaten to stop donating money if they vote for the bill.

So why this long story? Well, even this rediculous idiot of a talk-show host knows that only those with money can influence the political process. And those with lots of money can have major influence. By definition, that is Fascism, or also sometimes called "Corporatism". Democracy is where everyone can influence the political process equally. This is certainly no democracy.

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Eric5273 · #32 05-31-2007, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WagnerX5

NE way, back to the topic, Spain is a jack@ss for thinking it can now claim the 500M because "hey...that may have been in our water".

Like I asked before, if I was to come onto your property and dig up a big treasure, would you argue if I said it was mine 100% to keep?

Wagner · #33 05-31-2007, 06:46 PM

Hmm, that's not a fact yet..you have insinuated it to serve your purpose. Not a shocker.

It's the team that founds property now, plain and simple. They can't say "if you find anything good, we get it".

That is horse sh-t

Wagner · #34 05-31-2007, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric5273

We need one simple change to our political system. We need publicly financed elections.

Without that, it doesn't matter what changes are made to our political system. It would become corrupt overnight due to our economic system. Capitalism and Democracy do not mix. The end result of those two is Fascism. This Famous Book explains it quite well.

A little side story here:

Yesterday I was in my car at around 7pm and happen to turn on WABC Radio where this nut-case Mark Levin is on the radio in the evening. For all those who have no idea who this guy is, he kind of sounds like they gave a right-wing Archie Bunker the microphone and told him to yell and scream at the audience.

Anyway, the subject of discussion on this right-wing show was the current immigration legislation. And as expected, hoards of conservatives were calling in complaining about how their Republican leaders have betrayed them. So then one caller told the host that he knew a way to get these politicians to pay attention. He said in the past he had donated money to his congressman's campaign. He said when he called his congressman's office, if he didn't say who he was, they didn't seem to care what he had to say. But as soon as he told them he was a donor and that he was considering never donating money again if his congressman voted for the bill -- then of course they seemed very interested in what he had to say. So of course, Mr. Levin (the show host) agreed with the caller that most likely politicians will only pay attention to those who donate money. His solution? He encouraged all audence members who have donated money in the past to call their congressional reps and threaten to stop donating money if they vote for the bill.

So why this long story? Well, even this rediculous idiot of a talk-show host knows that only those with money can influence the political process. And those with lots of money can have major influence. By definition, that is Fascism, or also sometimes called "Corporatism". Democracy is where everyone can influence the political process equally. This is certainly no democracy.

Sorry but I'm not even reading all the rhetoric in that one. You seem to have all the answers, how come you aren't doing more then posting on a web board?

Eric5273 · #35 05-31-2007, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WagnerX5

Sorry but I'm not even reading all the rhetoric in that one. You seem to have all the answers, how come you aren't doing more then posting on a web board?

How do you know I'm not doing more? Just because you only know me from X5World does not mean that is the only place I exist.

Would it surprise you to know that I sometimes attend protests, write letters to congressmen and senators, etc.?? Last election I went around putting up signs for one of the candidates.

I do what I can.

Wagner · #36 05-31-2007, 07:41 PM

I'm pretty sure, judging by the fact that you only quote Wiki's and the Internet and never have commented to actions you've done when confronted with topics where those examples would be pertinent, you haven't done too much IMO.

I've written letters to Congressman and Senators, that hardly qualifies as being involved in anything (in fact I've actually posted to this on this board). You seem to post a lot of "..this would make it better.." but rarely, if ever, have direct correlations to the actions you've personally done. I guess it is just frustrating to see someone so mocking of their own government that takes such a small effort in effecting it (no military service, no government service, no political service). IMO of course, as you said...I don't know you. But judging by 99.9% of your posts being in the political landscape, I can get a pretty good idea. Kind of like...reading a wiki.

rebound · #37 05-31-2007, 08:49 PM

Like Eric's said in the past:

DON'T QUESTION THE SOURCE JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T AGREE! WIKI IS THE BEST!

(i love typing in all caps!

)

rebound · #38 05-31-2007, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric5273

I agree. Political opposition is no reason to shut down a station. Political opposition is necessary to have an open democracy.

HOWEVER....

I think it could be acceptable for a leader to shut down stations that encourage and actively support the violent overthrow of his democratically elected government.

If there was an attempted coup against President Bush, and CNN, MSNBC or CBS were to go on the air and ecourage people to support the coup, do you think those stations would then be shut down? I think so. I think such would be the case in any country.

Chavez did not even shut them down after the coup. They have been on the air 5 years since the coup took place. He simply waited for their license to expire and is not renewing their license. I'm pretty sure if that happened here in the United States, the FBI would raid the TV station within hours and shut them down.

90% of the media in Venezuela is anti-Chavez. But only a few television stations actively supported the coup. And it is my guess that those few will all be shut down eventually.

Do I agree with that? No. If it were me, I would leave the stations on the air. Instead I would arrest those who made the policy decisions at the station and put them on trial for treason. That would surely make more sense.

What do you think should be the punishment for supporting violent overthrow of your government? (another question in this thread surely to not be answered due to your "double standards")

What should be the punishment? Nothing.

Supporting it? Wow. It's called freedom of speech.

Taking up arms, attacking the police, shutting down opposing voices? That's punishable. Again, plenty of examples within our society right now that prove that.

Stick your double standards where the sun don't shine.

You rail against our government, then support others that prohibit freedoms.

You rail against our economy, then bitch that you're not getting your "fair" share.

You rail against the "military/industrial complex," then bitch that you don't get enough money from them.

Stick your double standards where the sun don't shine.

Meiac09 · #39 05-31-2007, 08:55 PM

on the bright side, it infers that our government isn't the biggest idiot of the global theater.

I hope their lawyers charge Spain a mint.

rebound · #40 05-31-2007, 08:57 PM

True - they never have been either. It's just that everyone knows more about what happens because it's so much more open.

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