Dave Matthews sucks! - Page 3

Smiley · #21 07-13-2005, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-Line

Just to go back to the original arguement, when you buy a CD, that is what you are buying, a CD. No where in the sales agreement does it say that you are buying the use of the intellectual property in what ever way you see fit. We take for granted that in the past, we have made tapes, stored on computers, and used it in whatever way we see fit. But since that has effected the business model because of theft, it needs to somehow correct.

Again, I disagree. Now I'm not a lawyer (so those of you who are can chime in), but when the Supreme Court ruled in Sony Corp. of America v. Universal City Studios, Inc. the Court "seemed to imply" that copying programs on video tapes was fair use. I say "seemed to imply" because many folks have made that interpretation. [Again, we now see that the invention of the VCR, and then the DVD player, actually helped the movie industry's sales.]

Now, the makers of Napster and other similar file-sharing programs have lost their cases, even though they probably tried to compare their technology to VCRs and video cassettes. However, I would think that copying CDs that you paid for to your iPod is more analogous to the details of the "Betamax" case and should be considered "fair use".

File-sharers were probably unsuccessful in their case (and comparison to the Betamax case) for a number of reasons, including 1) you can't prove who actually paid for the song (but here, I bought the Dave Matthews CD) and 2) sending the song to someone else doesn't fit the definition of time/space shifting (the reason to record TV programs to watch another day or to put music on your iPod to take with you to the gym).

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adventurelarry · #22 07-13-2005, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-Line

You would not think that if you saw all the time/money/work that actually went into making a movie. For every minute of on screen time you see, there is MONTHS of work behind it on the backs of writers, agents, producers, directors, actors, -- Not to mention the entire city of Los Angeles.

- Movies have become so expensive to make, unions, advertising and marketing, etc. And what you forget to account for is, only a small percentage ever hit the cineplex in your local mall.
- It is not unheard of a distribution company making 10-20 movies a year and only making a profit on one or two. So the profit of those blockbusters that you pay to see in the theater subsidizes the cost of many, many, other films that you may or may not ever see.

It took Clint Eastwood over 5 years to get Million Dollar Baby made and it was a relatively low budget at under 30 Million. And, even when you hear about the $20 million dollar paycheck for a Bruce Willis, etc. That actor is only taking home about 30% of their paycheck. Granted that is still alot of money, and there is a lot of money to be made in the entertainment business, but you don't often hear the stories of the companies that put EVERYTHING on the line for a movie or two.

Is $10 really that much to pay to see a movie that has cost over $200 million to make (not including advertising.) So much is spent to get you in that seat, it does need to be recouped.. And what about all the movies that hit the cineplex that you didn't see.

It is a very, very, complicated business. And because there is no absolute formula for success, a lot of bad films are paid for by the successful ones.

Just to go back to the original arguement, when you buy a CD, that is what you are buying, a CD. No where in the sales agreement does it say that you are buying the use of the intellectual property in what ever way you see fit. We take for granted that in the past, we have made tapes, stored on computers, and used it in whatever way we see fit. But since that has effected the business model because of theft, it needs to somehow correct.

I have friends who work in the music industry, if you read the trades, you will see, thousands are being let go on a yearly basis. I am not saying you are wrong, but until there is a solution to the problem, the industry has been reduced to trying to save it's own butt.
- And think of all the free music you still get, RADIO, INTERNET....
- And, record companies do not make money when an artist tours, they make money on the sale of the media, the CD, the download from Itunes, etc. They are not infringing on your rights.. They are protecting their product, as would any other business.

Actually I would know what goes into making movies (and for the matter TV shows and CD's) as I have family in the entertainment industry, including an Aunt who starred in one of the most controversial and top rated sitcoms of all time.

Make fewer movies is one solution. If I do not spend $10 on a ticket then that is $10 less that goes into the movie industry. If the price was $5 dollars, and I went to the movie then that is $5 more then they would have had. The entertainment industry can also lower costs using digital projectors (which cost more upfront) which lower distribution costs, the cost of making prints, etc. There is a lot the industry can do, if it wants to.

As far as cd's, there has been much legislation regarding this issue. The Audio Home Recording Act of 1992 legalized our right to copy music for personal use. According to a report by Harvard file swapping had an effect on cd sales that was "indistinguisable from zero". As far as sales of CD's go, US CD sales rose by 2.3% in 2004.

I do not download music (except via iTunes) and I will not purchase a CD from a company that is trying to control my digital rights. That is my choice, and the only way I have to realistically fight back.

--Larry

Chris F. · #23 07-13-2005, 05:40 PM

I agree with you Larry. B-Line, I think you have some great points but realize I don't need the movie industry to spend $200 million on a movie. Think of that stupid movie -- what was -- Blair Witch Project? What a strange and cool movie, and it cost ten grand to make. The movie industry needs to slim down on over priced actors, props, and all sorts of stuff. Like any industry, there is a lot of 'fluff' that could be trimmed.

Unfortunately what it comes down to (for me anyways) is that because necessities are so high priced these days (gas, food, whatever)....I vote with my wallet. I haven't been to a movie in close to a year. Why? It's too expensive. Call me crazy. Sure I drive a BMW, but I'm a penny pincher. I just bought a house. Money is tight, and there are some things I omit without even blinking an eye. Does TOm Cruise have to be paid $20 milllion dollars to star in a movie? It's just like baseball, NHL.....we could go on and on.

B-Line · #24 07-13-2005, 07:10 PM

All good points..

We could debate at neasuam. I understand where you are all coming from and am not saying I disagree. As an Ipod owner I would want to be able to download the cd as well. And, I would be frustrated too.

Maybe in the near future, the industry and the consumer will find a happy medium.

Again, it is scary for us "young filmmakers" knowing one of the biggest problems we will be facing in the future is intellectual property theft.
We all pay for our media somehow. Even if it is television, which we pay for by watching commercials.

If paid entertainment has to go this way where every movie is an ad for Coke, Pepsi, Fedex.. I think that would be worse than what we have now.

Or god forbid, all we have left to watch is, My Big Fat Survivor who wants to be a Hilton while Dancing our way onto American Idol, in the hopes of landing an Apprenticeship, While watching our Nanny eat Bugs, and competing for the love of the worlds biggest loser, who has had a makeover, been given a million dollars, and has been injected with a sexually transmitted disease..

Lol !!!

Peace Out !!

The B meister

lanbrown · #25 07-13-2005, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-Line

I have mixed feelings...

As much as I am sorry that you can't copy your cd onto your cpu or even play it for that matter, I do think the music industry needs to do this in order to stay alive.
- The reason for this can squarely be blamed on those who have stolen music, (we are probably all somewhat guilty of this..) but the financial hardships the industry is induring must be prevented somehow.

- Now you might not feel bad for the "rockstar" who is making 1/4 of what they used to because of copyright theft but you are not on the receiving end of their license checks either.
- I for one hope the entertainment industry finds a way to STOP all intellectual property theft even if it is an inconvience in some way.
It will not be long before feature legnth films can easily be downloaded at full quality and stolen in masses, bootlegs are already doing significant damage.
- If this does happen, at the end of the day, the people who get hurt most are the consumers. Why you ask? because if corporations have to divert funds to stop theft or face ever decreasing revenues, the quality of the content will suffer. So much money needs to be spent on marketing, fulfillment, etc. that if the system gets screwed up, it will effect the content and the quality of the media we so wish to enjoy..

Sorry, but as a future filmmaker of America (hopefully) all entertainment theft should try to be stopped with whatever means neccessary. Theft is theft, no matter if it is xenon bulbs on your X5 or the music or movie someone has slaved over for the past 5-10 years..

B

I would disagree. The industry has cried wolf many times in the past and each and every time they make more money. Look at what they charge for their product? At most 74 minutes, but usually less than an hour. Are all of the songs good? Nope. You can’t buy high quality digital recordings individually either. So the music companies have a market that they are ignoring. How much do they charge for their product? Too much, that’s the problem. Hollywood sort of gets it, release the DVD charge more for it, down the road they drop the price. Sony spent 1 million dollars on their CD copyright protection scheme, but yet it can be fooled by a $0.99 Sharpie pen. Money well spent by Sony.

Hollywood has a different problem, and that is they are a monopoly. They encode DVD’s with different regions and charge a different prices based on the regions they are sold in. The music companies also settled with the FTC but admitted no wrongdoing in their price fixing. As you mentioned, theft is theft and the music companies and Hollywood have continually ripped off the consumer. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, they now have a problem with theft. If they want to stay alive, they need to adapt to changes, which so far they are resisting.

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