Of course you could always look at Max Schmeling too

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An unwavering defender of those I see worth protecting.

"promote the general welfare, not provide the general welfare"

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Interestingly enough, while Jesse Owens' gold metals was played out in the press as a political victory for America over the Nazis, Owens himself claimed the Germans were very courteous and that he was treated better in Germany than he was back home in the US. Apparently he was able to stay in "white" hotels, where as back home he had to stay in "black only" hotels when he travelled to compete. Here are a couple of things he said at the time:

"When I passed the Chancellor [Hitler] he arose, waved his hand at me, and I waved back at him. I think the writers showed bad taste in criticizing the man of the hour in Germany."

"Hitler didn't snub me—it was FDR who snubbed me. The president didn't even send me a telegram."

Apparently he was not invited to the White House along with all the other (white) gold metal winners, and when he was honored by the Olympic Committee at the Waldorf-Astoria hotel in NYC, he had to come in the back entrance and take the freight elevator as blacks were typically not allowed in that hotel.

So while the press was chalking this one up as a win for the land of freedom over the land of racism and hatred, the reality was a bit different.

Furthermore, Owens was very good friends with German track & field star Lutz Long, and in the example given above, Joe Louis was life-long friends with Max Schmelling. It's too bad the press made these rivalries into political contests.

The Olympics (and sports in general) is not the place to protest politics. The purpose of the Olympics is for everyone to forget about politics and be friendly with eachother for a short period of time.

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my experience on X5world when I spend too much
time posting in political threads in the lounge...

That may be but let's keep on track with the truth regarding Jessie Owens and Hitler.

Hitler viewed African-Americans as inferior and chastised the United States for stooping to use these "non-humans." Despite the endless racial epithets and the constant presence of the red and black swastika, Owens made Hitler eat his words with four gold medals.

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"What you hear in a great jazz band is the sound of democracy. “The jazz band works best when participation is shaped by intelligent communication.”
Harmony happens whenever different parts get to form a whole by means of congruity, concord, symetry, consistency, conformity, correspondence, agreement, accord, unity, consonance…….

Of course. But my point was that athletes usually just want to play the game. Rarely do they want to be involved in a political spitting match. Owens' close friendship with his German counterpart is evidence enough of that. Obviously both Owens and Long did not hold a high opinion of the leaders of either country.

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my experience on X5world when I spend too much
time posting in political threads in the lounge...

Keep on track with the truth? How about lets keep it honest.

By using what appears to be quotes from JesseOwens himself, Eric was able to show (at least to me) the hypocracy in this whole Hitler/Owens olympics debate. We all know what Hitler was about, and did not expect much more from him. I'm sure Owens was pelted with racial epithets and the constant presence of swastikas at the Berlin games. However, after defeating Nazi Germany he returned home to the states where he was faced with the same racial epithets, discrimination, bigotry and the presumably the presence of the confederate flag. Owens is by far the most heralded olympic athlete of all time, an eternal bearer of the laurel wreath. He defined Achievement. He won four gold medals and was not invited to the White House to meet Presidents FDR or Truman along with the other USA olympic athletes???? He had to use the back door of the hotel to receive his recognition from the IOC??? Amazing?...not. Who was the real winner? Certainly not Owens by history's account.

Not true....

http://espn.go.com/sportscentury/features/00016393.html


In Germany, the Nazis portrayed African-Americans as inferior and ridiculed the United States for relying on "black auxiliaries." One German official even complained that the Americans were letting "non-humans, like Owens and other Negro athletes," compete.
But the German people felt otherwise. Crowds of 110,000 cheered him in Berlin's glittering Olympic Stadium and his autograph or picture was sought as he walked the streets.

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my experience on X5world when I spend too much
time posting in political threads in the lounge...

Discrimination in the 30's before and after was terrible and left a scar on America which will never go away. However, it cracks me up to see Eric and in some part Krimson place the United States at the time on par with Nazi Germany who was exterminating an entire race in gas chambers.

Great Eric...Owens was mobbed for autographs in Berlin so they must be better than America. Do you even listen to yourself at times?

The point of the debate was not to say that Owens received anything other than 4 gold medals. But his victory was seen as some sort of theological/political victory. Even though, as I stated in earlier post, both the US and Germany had similar ills and it was, although extremely significant, no such thing.

We are turning this into a debate about race and Oympics. We could do that! There is a long terrible US history about race and the Olympics. But that definitelty was not the debate in this particular thread....

From what I remember it was the political significances of Olympic boycotts, bans or other things such as that.

To that end, political statement have never acheived any tangible results even with respect to race! John Carlos and Tommy Smith were kicked off the team and sent home. Muhammed Ali (then Cassius Clay) was treated no better, upon return to Kentucky after winning his medal.. Although I believe if all the black atheletes had boycotted the US team, as they originally planned, that would have been a major statement. However the images of Carlos and Smith is burned in my memory... I'm old enough to remember seeing it on TV.

Still not the debate we are having. I don't think I, nor anyone else on this thread, indicated that wonderful things happened for Jesse, in particular. Because for all intent and purposes he was used by the US, just as Margret Lambert was by Hitler.

Although the US, at the time, was not akin to Nazi Germany, it can be argued, that its accumilated ills were equal, if not greater than Nazi Germany.

The Nazi's perpetrated their deeds in a compact span of time. But similar deeds were done over an extended period of time in the US. And it should not be discounted because there was a marginal recession in those deeds by the Berlin Olympics. Blood, not matter the speed spilt, does not wash away so easily...

But again! This was not the discussion we were having! This is a totally different issues that deserves its measure of attention.. Not a by-the-way-thread-diverting one....