What do you think of a US deserter? - Page 2

B-Line · #11 08-13-2008, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrLabGuy

I believe the military should be entirely voluntary without a draft with the exception of a war on American soil where ALL men of age are required to obey the call if summoned by our Government. Women would remain voluntary.

I don't agree with you on the, women remain voluntary... Why would women remain voluntary? Israeli woman aren't voluntarily in the military. Neither for many other countries armies.

We have women fighting in Iraq. We have women in all branches of military. So why not in a draft?

Times have changed...

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Wagner · #12 08-13-2008, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-Line

I don't agree with you on the, women remain voluntary... Why would women remain voluntary? Israeli woman aren't voluntarily in the military. Neither for many other countries armies.

We have women fighting in Iraq. We have women in all branches of military. So why not in a draft?

Times have changed...

My question would be, where do all the libbys run who don't want citizens to have guns?

trueX5er · #13 08-13-2008, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peanuto

This is a bit of a tough one. Its easy to stand and say F-him, but never having been in the military, nor seen war first hand to know how it would psychologically affect me... In my opinion, the reasons this guy states are pretty BS. The whole starting a life deal and all. However, if he could not handle war, or if sent back would be a danger to his fellow soldiers by being unable to do his job properly, then what? I dont know. The American in me says desertion is treason, but the person in me says what if I was in his shoes.

Agreed. We have no idea what he experienced over there, it might have been forced to shoot innocent people, commit actions that are immoral, etc, we don't know. He should have to pay some sort of fine though. I don't think he will succeed in getting refugee status in Canada, although Trudeau allowed that during Vietnam for fleeing Americans.

Thunder22 · #14 08-13-2008, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trueX5er

Agreed. We have no idea what he experienced over there, it might have been forced to shoot innocent people, commit actions that are immoral, etc, we don't know. He should have to pay some sort of fine though. I don't think he will succeed in getting refugee status in Canada, although Trudeau allowed that during Vietnam for fleeing Americans.

or he's a coward.

PersonaNonGrata · #15 08-13-2008, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trueX5er

Agreed. We have no idea what he experienced over there, it might have been forced to shoot innocent people, commit actions that are immoral, etc, we don't know. He should have to pay some sort of fine though. I don't think he will succeed in getting refugee status in Canada, although Trudeau allowed that during Vietnam for fleeing Americans.

From what I can gather, he had never been over there. He beat feet when he found out his unit was being deployed. There are many men and women who have gone and suffered mental trauma as well as physical injury and there are many men and women who have been there multiple times. They don't like it but they do it because it's their duty.

I agree with B-Line that he should pay back all the salary and benefits provided to him while the military suited him and I agree with everyone who thinks the guy needs some punishment.

Refugee status based on fear of punishment for breaking the law in America? F the guy. He makes a mockery of the refugee status provisions.

trueX5er · #16 08-13-2008, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PersonaNonGrata

From what I can gather, he had never been over there. He beat feet when he found out his unit was being deployed. There are many men and women who have gone and suffered mental trauma as well as physical injury and there are many men and women who have been there multiple times. They don't like it but they do it because it's their duty.

I agree with B-Line that he should pay back all the salary and benefits provided to him while the military suited him and I agree with everyone who thinks the guy needs some punishment.

Refugee status based on fear of punishment for breaking the law in America? F the guy. He makes a mockery of the refugee status provisions.

Sorry, I'm getting the articles mixed up. One guy went to Baghdad, and when he was home on leave, fled to Manitoba.

djbock · #17 08-13-2008, 05:54 PM

Having been in the service for 18+ years, and having been to Iraq, Kuwait and Saudi numerous times since 1990, I have no sympathy. He signed the dotted line and raised his right hand. I am sure that nobody "forced" him into joining. Here is the appropriate acticle of the UCMJ:

885. ART. 85. DESERTION
(a) Any member of the armed forces who--

(1) without authority goes or remains absent from his unit, organization, or place of duty with intent to remain away therefrom permanently;
(2) quits his unit, organization, or place of duty with intent to avoid hazardous duty or to shirk important service; or
(3) without being regularly separated from one of the armed forces enlists or accepts an appointment in the same or another on of the armed forces without fully disclosing the fact that he has not been regularly separated, or enters any foreign armed service except when authorized by the United States; is guilty of desertion.

(b) Any commissioned officer of the armed forces who, after tender of his resignation and before notice of its acceptance, quits his post or proper duties without leave and with intent to remain away therefrom permanently is guilty of desertion.
(c) Any person found guilty of desertion or attempt to desert shall be punished, if the offense is committed in time of war, by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct, but if the desertion or attempt to desert occurs at any other time, by such punishment, other than death, as a court-martial may direct.

Sounds good to me.

Also, his CO request won't fly; according to DodI 1300:

An individual who desires to choose the war in which he or she will participate is not a Conscientious Objector under the law. The individual's objection must be to all wars rather than a specific war.

Wagner · #18 08-13-2008, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djbock

Having been in the service for 18+ years, and having been to Iraq, Kuwait and Saudi numerous times since 1990, I have no sympathy. He signed the dotted line and raised his right hand. I am sure that nobody "forced" him into joining. Here is the appropriate acticle of the UCMJ:

885. ART. 85. DESERTION
(a) Any member of the armed forces who--

(1) without authority goes or remains absent from his unit, organization, or place of duty with intent to remain away therefrom permanently;
(2) quits his unit, organization, or place of duty with intent to avoid hazardous duty or to shirk important service; or
(3) without being regularly separated from one of the armed forces enlists or accepts an appointment in the same or another on of the armed forces without fully disclosing the fact that he has not been regularly separated, or enters any foreign armed service except when authorized by the United States; is guilty of desertion.

(b) Any commissioned officer of the armed forces who, after tender of his resignation and before notice of its acceptance, quits his post or proper duties without leave and with intent to remain away therefrom permanently is guilty of desertion.
(c) Any person found guilty of desertion or attempt to desert shall be punished, if the offense is committed in time of war, by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct, but if the desertion or attempt to desert occurs at any other time, by such punishment, other than death, as a court-martial may direct.

Sounds good to me.

Emphasis on option c.

blondboinsd · #19 08-13-2008, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wagner

Emphasis on option c.

Um you want him killed? That is insane besides no court marshall is stupid enough to give him that and IF they do it is a direct reflection of how bad the country has gotten. The mob mentality here makes me sick to my stomach. Just my 2 cents

djbock · #20 08-13-2008, 10:25 PM

What mob mentality,

the UCMJ article is clearly stated above.

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