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  #21  
Old 05-20-2009, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by generx View Post
Lately I find that when I feel the urge to flip someone the bird, I just whip out the peace sign...

This confuses people and diffuses the situation a majority of the time.
I blow kisses....I don't know why but one guy got more pissed off by the kiss than he would have if I'd given him the finger.
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  #22  
Old 05-20-2009, 01:50 PM
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As I read through the attached stories, I see conflicting witness statements that place both parties at some degree of fault. It's may be fun to guess at culpability, but we'll have to wait until the trial.

One of these days, we'll all be driving with video cameras and recording devices mounted to our vehicles.
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  #23  
Old 05-22-2009, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x5GuyInLA View Post
I've never run someone over before, but I would think that you wouldn't drive a block before stopping, especially if you know you just ran someone over. I would think the natural reaction would be to slam on the brakes. The guy would probably be dead either way, but having the guy under the car would make more sense if he was trying to get away and the guy jumped in front of the car.

Here's a video of the story and another report about it. Driver pleads not guilty in fatal road-rage incident -- Newsday.com
Hmmm...this is where I slightly disagree with you. Think about it, you're some 125# geeky twink (making an assumption, not sure of the guy's stature) who probably can't drive and just accidentally cut off Lucifer himself, and are scared $hitless! Fear kicks in, and you try to get away. But, the POS rental you're driving lacks punch and Lucifer strikes his wand, appears before you with his evil horns, and threatens to make your life living hell.

At this point, adreneline joins that fear as you're scared for your life, and you've got survival instinct to do any and everything necessary to survive. You conquer Lucifer to the best of your abilities - by running him over - but that adreneline does not die down so quickly...you're still in fight mode until a block away, which is where REALITY kicks in!

I don't know what world you live in, but, most folks I know do not quite register what happened so quickly. I'm actually surprised he stopped merely a block away. Had it been me, being so crazy, I likely would have still tried to beat the crap out of the big guy, regardless of his size. However, it makes total sense to me why a guy intimidated by someone's huge size could do as I described above. Remember, not everyone thinks like yourself, and it seems pretty clear this young guy was trying to avoid the situation.

In any event, bully or not, this is a disaster for the family of the deceased (not sure I can call him a victim), and will more than likely deeply affect the suspect his entire life. Such a calamity.
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  #24  
Old 05-22-2009, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quicksilver View Post
I realize that as you say "there are people out there who will overreact to a traffic incident and will
follow someone and take the additional step of getting out of their car and threatening the other driver.

So the question is what would I do "if some crazed and enraged man who happens to be larger than
you is banging on your door, threatening to do all kinds of violent things to you,
maybe even trying to yank your door open?

It already has happened to me on more than one occasion.
As long as there's no gun involved what I have found is that
there are other measures to handle the situation without taking
a persons life.

IMO Taking someones life is just not an acceptable
answer when someone else is angry and there are other
reasonable options.
You make plenty sense, but I think you're missing something. You're thinking with your mind...and I agree. If I didn't fight the guy (another thing I always try to avoid...any physical confrontation), I certainly would have first tried to find a definite way to get away, and two, called the cops. There are just no winners in this situation unless we let the cops handle it their way...even if "I" were to fight the guy and win that battle.

However, what I think you're missing is that not everything thinks like you, or I. Before I do anything, I think about the potential future consequences. Many folks simply think of making it through the situation, become irrational, and panic. While it clearly is not the best course of action to take, and may even seem stupid to us all, it does not mean the person had any negative intentions whatsoever. We all react differently to certain situations; especially those where we feel threatened.
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  #25  
Old 05-22-2009, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by generx View Post
Actually my CPL is up to date so it probably would have been a different story. Avoidance is still the best defense so I still probably would put my foot down in that situation just to get out of there. I would never pull out a weapon unless I intended to use it and only as a last resort.

We all hit a boiling point with traffic, work stress, etc. It takes 2 drivers to cause an incident, I've had my share of altercations and it''s just not worth it. Lately I find that when I feel the urge to flip someone the bird, I just whip out the peace sign...

This confuses people and diffuses the situation a majority of the time.
I agree. When someone cuts me off I pretty much ignore them unless it was a situation where I was almost completely wiped out. For some reason, I am OFTEN in a situation where I am cut off and someone almost causes a really bad accident. Although I'm under tons of stress running two corporations, singing in a group, playing softball, and a bit irritated I do not have much time to do things most normal 32 year olds do, I manage to keep my stress in the appropriate places and totally do nothing about it 99% of the time. That is, when the person cuts me off, I go around and pass them without even giving them a glance. Trust me, it will make your day so much better and less stressful!
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  #26  
Old 05-22-2009, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quicksilver View Post
I realize that as you say "there are people out there who will overreact to a traffic incident and will
follow someone and take the additional step of getting out of their car and threatening the other driver.

So the question is what would I do "if some crazed and enraged man who happens to be larger than
you is banging on your door, threatening to do all kinds of violent things to you,
maybe even trying to yank your door open?

It already has happened to me on more than one occasion.
As long as there's no gun involved what I have found is that
there are other measures to handle the situation without taking
a persons life.

IMO Taking someones life is just not an acceptable
answer when someone else is angry and there are other
reasonable options.
I cannot disagree with you Barry. I agree that there should be alternatives to taking someone's life, even an attacker, and that usually starts with leaving the situation. But what if during the course of leaving the situation to avoid an escalation of the conflict you are stopped or unable to leave? Perhaps traffic does not permit an easy egress or the attacker himself blocks your escape. I just think there are situations that arise where the best of intentions can't help and even where it is the other person pushes you to extreme measures. I'm still not saying that lethal force should be the first option but to me, just sitting in my car while some dude comes at me with a baseball bat is not a situation I would sit there and take it with the hopes that he gets tired and goes away before he does harm to me or others.
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  #27  
Old 05-22-2009, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssan586 View Post
Hmmm...this is where I slightly disagree with you. Think about it, you're some 125# geeky twink (making an assumption, not sure of the guy's stature) who probably can't drive and just accidentally cut off Lucifer himself, and are scared $hitless! Fear kicks in, and you try to get away. But, the POS rental you're driving lacks punch and Lucifer strikes his wand, appears before you with his evil horns, and threatens to make your life living hell.

At this point, adreneline joins that fear as you're scared for your life, and you've got survival instinct to do any and everything necessary to survive. You conquer Lucifer to the best of your abilities - by running him over - but that adreneline does not die down so quickly...you're still in fight mode until a block away, which is where REALITY kicks in!

I don't know what world you live in, but, most folks I know do not quite register what happened so quickly. I'm actually surprised he stopped merely a block away. Had it been me, being so crazy, I likely would have still tried to beat the crap out of the big guy, regardless of his size. However, it makes total sense to me why a guy intimidated by someone's huge size could do as I described above. Remember, not everyone thinks like yourself, and it seems pretty clear this young guy was trying to avoid the situation.

In any event, bully or not, this is a disaster for the family of the deceased (not sure I can call him a victim), and will more than likely deeply affect the suspect his entire life. Such a calamity.
Very well thought-out post. If the witness statements from the articles hold up in Court, the defendant has 3 big things going for him. 1) "Lucifer" ran a red light in order to catch up to the kid. 2) Lucifer then blatantly and aggressively blocks the kid's egress with his Porsche. and 3) "Lucifer" gets out to continue the confrontation, attacking the defendant's property and blocking defendant's egress with his hulking frame. So: who is the aggressor?

I will leave the question of whether this Porsche driver "deserved" what he got to a Higher Authority, but the other sad aspect is: Even if the kid gets acquitted 100% in criminal court, the aggressor's family will doubtless file a gigantic civil claim against the kid for wrongful death. Burden of proof for Plaintiff is easier to achieve in civil court. Any way you cut it, this kid's foreseeable future will be filled with stress, possible death threats, and financial hardship.
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  #28  
Old 05-22-2009, 02:06 PM
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I guess this would be one of those times when it would be prudent
to violate the law and use my cell phone and call the police.
If I'm in the car and an idiot is going crazy outside of the car
I can continue to take pictures of him and let him explain his
behaviour to the police when they arrive.

You would be surprised at how quickly people cool off when
you start using your cell phone as they begin an escalation of
any conflict. You just have to keep your cool and let people
see themselves digging themselves a big hole.

If they are reasonable then perhaps you can hang up and
the problem goes away. If they are unreasonable they will
probably go to jail and end up with a law suit for vehicular
damage, and charges with assault with a deadly weapon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PersonaNonGrata View Post
I cannot disagree with you Barry. I agree that there should be alternatives to taking someone's life, even an attacker, and that usually starts with leaving the situation. But what if during the course of leaving the situation to avoid an escalation of the conflict you are stopped or unable to leave? Perhaps traffic does not permit an easy egress or the attacker himself blocks your escape. I just think there are situations that arise where the best of intentions can't help and even where it is the other person pushes you to extreme measures. I'm still not saying that lethal force should be the first option but to me, just sitting in my car while some dude comes at me with a baseball bat is not a situation I would sit there and take it with the hopes that he gets tired and goes away before he does harm to me or others.
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  #29  
Old 05-22-2009, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quicksilver View Post
....
If they are reasonable then perhaps you can hang up and
the problem goes away. If they are unreasonable they will
probably go to jail and end up with a law suit for vehicular
damage, and charges with assault with a deadly weapon.
THere's just one little problem with that...THEM ending up with a charge of assault or a law suit is not much solace if YOU end up with broken orbital bones, fractured ribs, or a fractured skull....or worse...
I'm not looking to pad my pockets with $$ in that situation...I'm looking to neutralize the immediate threat (assuming you are physically "blocked in" like this kid appeared to be).
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  #30  
Old 05-22-2009, 02:45 PM
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Even I wouldn't allow it to come to that....
I'm looking to neutralize the immediate threat
as well. I just believe avoidance is a necessary
plan of action until there is no other choice.

Every situation is different, the people involved
are different and the decisions we can make are
different. So I would never say I would or
would not do this or that in every given situation.
But I do believe that taking another human life
by over reacting might not be a wise course.
One could agree or disagree but that's my 2 cents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StanF18 View Post
THere's just one little problem with that...THEM ending up with a charge of assault or a law suit is not much solace if YOU end up with broken orbital bones, fractured ribs, or a fractured skull....or worse...
I'm not looking to pad my pockets with $$ in that situation...I'm looking to neutralize the immediate threat (assuming you are physically "blocked in" like this kid appeared to be).
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