JCL definatly put in some good info! Dont know why your against the business model, they take care of their dealers (the operation is similar to that of Snap-On, except they dont screw dealers, infact they do everything to help them) But thats off topic. Honestly I noticed some oil consumption but once i started using a 5W-40 european spec oil my consumption went down. (I use the Full SAPS 5W-40 but im sure any euro oil, like pennzoil or mobil 1 will have the same effects)

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Do your car and move up to Amsoil.

Not a fan of multi-level marketing. When a shop sells a regular product, the product stands on its reputation. When a MLM marketer sells a product, the goal is to convert customers into (often) evangelical sales reps that spread the word for them. What that means in practice is that instead of hearing about someone's results with a specific product in an unfiltered way, the public is often hearing from someone who is being compensated directly or indirectly in the event that more of the product is sold. So you end up with no neutral references, just paid advertisements. That is all apart from the quality of the product, which may or may not be fine. The usual defence is "but the product actually is good....". Not the point IMO. I tend not to trust reviews by those being compensated to do those reviews.

Beyond the MLM issue, there is the reluctance to submit oils for independent third party testing (API for example), which appears to be a defined part of the business plan, in order to promote the mystique of boutique oils.

Finally, there is the misleading language around the tests the oils have passed and the certifications they have. Amsoil is like several other smaller oil companies here, they are not the only one, but saying that an oil is "suitable for vehicles that require an oil to meet spec xxxx" is not the same as saying "certified to spec. xxxx". It is designed to mislead. The words are written by lawyers, not engineers. It may or may not meet the spec. The seller is saying that you should just trust them, and use it anyway. It exploits those consumers who don't know the difference. It is a shady practice that sellers should be called on.

They very well may take care of their dealers. My issue is that they set out to deceive their potential customers.

I never thought of Amsoil as being like Snap On. In my experience, Snap On and Mac let their product speak for itself. Maybe that was just the reps I dealt with. They didn't overpromise. They didn't say "this wrench will make your oil last longer and your car run smoother", they said "this wrench will fit a 17 mm bolt and if it breaks we will replace it". Pretty straightforward value proposition.

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2007 X3 3.0si, 6 MT, Premium, White

Retired:
2008 535i, 6 MT, M Sport, Premium, Space Grey
2003 X5 3.0 Steptronic, Premium, Titanium Silver
2002 325xi 5 MT, Steel Grey
2004 Z4 3.0 Premium, Sport, SMG, Maldives Blue

Same thing, we educate customers on our products, its not a cure all but it does in fact help your vehicle. Also im sorry but your information is completely incorrect. Amsoil OE and XL ARE API certified. The Euro oils are certified for BMW and other European manufacturers. The only oil that is not API certified is the signature because Al feels thats a waste of good money. They certified the others so nay sayers would have 1 less argument. Amsoil has been extensively tested in house as well as 3rd party labs and has proven itself. Do some research on Amsoil, no complaints against the company (there was a situation involving Toyota but Amsoil offered to pay for the fixes, alot were found to be user error). Honestly man, if you have not used Amsoil then I feel you are in no position to comment on its quality, ive been using for 15 years, my dads been using since 1986, never had any engine/oil related issues.

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Do your car and move up to Amsoil.

Sorry you didn't want to hear the background. It was a four year old thread.

Explain why the cheapest oils are certified API, but not advised by Amsoil to meet the same change intervals as the 'better' oils? The better oils, or at least the more expensive ones you are promoting, are not certified by BMW. Same legalese, words suggesting it but no actual certification. Then we have the issue that the better oils are said by Amsoil to meet manufacturer's recommended change intervals and beyond (25,000 miles?), but you are promoting changing even those much more frequently. That would result in two or three times the oil sales volume, but where's the confidence in the product? You are also promoting low, medium, and high SAPS as if it is a choice. For gasoline engines, in North America, products with the specs of your low and medium products have been recommended by BMW (in a TSB) to not be used as they don't hold up. It would be irresponsible to sell them for a gasoline engine, and Amsoil should know that. They would if they actually had the certifications.

I didn't comment on its quality, we were discussing the business model, which is what precludes me from using it. As I noted, the usual defence is to talk about the quality, in house testing, trust us it's great. No thanks. I can't get past the business model issues. The oil may be wonderful, but why reward a company that acts this way?

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2007 X3 3.0si, 6 MT, Premium, White

Retired:
2008 535i, 6 MT, M Sport, Premium, Space Grey
2003 X5 3.0 Steptronic, Premium, Titanium Silver
2002 325xi 5 MT, Steel Grey
2004 Z4 3.0 Premium, Sport, SMG, Maldives Blue

It was years ago. I think he reported in another thread that he sold the vehicle. A search would confirm that.

__________________
2007 X3 3.0si, 6 MT, Premium, White

Retired:
2008 535i, 6 MT, M Sport, Premium, Space Grey
2003 X5 3.0 Steptronic, Premium, Titanium Silver
2002 325xi 5 MT, Steel Grey
2004 Z4 3.0 Premium, Sport, SMG, Maldives Blue

Ive used the 25k mile change intervals and if you buy the Signature series then do the 25k mile interval without worrying. The decision to certify the cheaper oils is for businesses, they dont want to sell the 25k mile oil, they lose money. I honestly couldnt tell you why else, id have to ask. The full SAPS is for use in older models (such as those requiring bmw LL-01) the mid SAPS meets LL-04. The sulfated ash and phosphorus are for the emissions equipment and high performance applications of these vehicles. Most require the full saps, but mid saps works for high performance, the low saps is for the newer vehicles. Also I, as well as Amsoil, recommend that you change early for the first time, from the second change on go for the 25k mile, we do it with the A6 and have had no issues. The 3rd party results were consistant with the in house sometimes the results have been better. Try it and youll see why Amsoil has such a loyal following.

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Do your car and move up to Amsoil.

Blanket statements regarding extended oil change intervals without monitoring by oil analysis are irresponsible and do a disservice to the user. Regardless of the properties the oil may have, air filter maintenance, fuel delivery issues, coolant leakage,driving conditions and the specific type of engine all have an impact on the ability of the oil to be left in the engine for an extended period of time.

Advocating time based drain intervals that are many times what one would consider "normal" ignores the condition based maintenance practices that reliability focused maintenance professionals have embraced.

I'm all for extended drain intervals, but it requires an investment in time and energy with monitoring an integral part of the program.

Thats why i dont really believe in the 25k, 1 year change unless your engine is in good condition, because as you said, there are many factors that effect how long the oil can be in the crankcase. I sell alot of signature series but those guys use it in their show cars, i have a couple commercial accounts using it as well. I have regular joes who use it but their motors are in good shape. Otherwise i just recommend the OE or XL, decent change interval, maximum protection, and savings as well.

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Do your car and move up to Amsoil.

I wouldn't agree with that. These oils apparently aren't certified LL01 and LL04, but let's use those specs as indicators or qualifiers on typical levels of sulfated ash. LL04 calls for lower sulphated ash, and yes, it is for the emissions system. Specifically, the emissions system on the diesel. BMW originally recommended LL04 for all newer models, based on their testing. However, North American fuels differed from European fuels, and they found that the LL04 spec did not stand up when run in gasoline engines in North America. It broke down early. It works well with the diesel, and is in fact required in that application. In 2009 BMW advised against using LL04 oils in those applications, ie newer gasoline engines in North America. See the TSB, it is posted here as well as on many other sites.

So now Amsoil comes out with an oil that they say is blended to the LL04 spec. Actually two oils, low and mid SAPS. Not certified, but similar, apparently. OK, so why would you recommend using an oil blended to a BMW spec that BMW real world testing has shown doesn't work? It isn't about the performance level of the vehicle, it is about the fuel. People who aspire to use European oil blends in North America forget that they aren't running on European fuels. So maybe the whole Amsoil European car oils program should have a disclaimer that says "Only valid for European fuels" or something to that effect. Or maybe it isn't really an LL04 oil, and so it stands up. Or maybe it has some new ingredients that aren't included in the LL04 spec that make it last longer, but it is still an LLO4 spec blend. Who would gamble on that?

__________________
2007 X3 3.0si, 6 MT, Premium, White

Retired:
2008 535i, 6 MT, M Sport, Premium, Space Grey
2003 X5 3.0 Steptronic, Premium, Titanium Silver
2002 325xi 5 MT, Steel Grey
2004 Z4 3.0 Premium, Sport, SMG, Maldives Blue