Goverment to disable Cellphone use in cars - Page 4

m5james · #1 12-04-2010, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCL

I tend to agree that hands free makes sense when compared to holding a device. It makes sense to have your hands free to maneuver. But if we were really concerned about having hands free to maneuver, we would probably ban stickshifts and hand signals.

Studies seem to show that it is much more distracting speaking, and preparing to speak, than to listen. Using a phone isn't the same as having a conversation with a passenger, since a passenger is aware of things competing for the driver's attention.

See if you can find that 'handsfree is safer than handsheld' study. And studies conducted by makers of BT headsets don't count.

I think the reason that laws, where they have been enacted, focus on handheld devices is that they catch texters, and they are more easily sold, politically. The lawmakers have the studies in hand that show they are a misdirected law, ie if they want to reduce driver distraction and related accidents they should ban all telephone use. That would be a tough sell.

If I'm having a conversation for undetermined amount of time, then I'd have to have my hand off the wheel the ENTIRE time. In comparison, it is by no means necessary to hold the shift lever or turn signals but for that second or two that I'm using it.

I'm guessing that is a blanket study, but I know for a fact that when I'm riding my bike, I calm down and I'm not as edgy when I've got music playing vs listening to the drone of the exhaust....but as you stated, I'm only listening vs talking, so maybe my point is moot. I can agree that w/ you that me being in the car by myself that the other person on the line has no clue as to what's going on while I'm driving...but at the same time, just because someone is still talking, that doesn't mean I'm forced to pay attention. Ask my GF

I know that in times of complete concentration, I don't even have the slightest clue of the things I've heard, so once again, just because the distraction is there, doesn't mean I'm paying attention to it at that moment.

I've not once quoted an actual study on here, nor am I going to start now. You said I can't site BT manufacturers, so can I site our own, the holy grail of safety, BMW itself (and countless other automobile manufacturers)? BMW sells it as a safety feature, do they not? As I said, I could probably find studies showing one vs the other, so who ever reads that study will always side w/ what they agree w/ anyways, just like our varying opinions on transmission servicing...I know what I've done, you know what you've done, and no one is going to tell use otherwise. I know from my own experience, that if I'm going to be talking period, what seems to make more logical sense to me. Dedicating an arm to hold a phone (and everything that comes w/ it that I've stated above) vs having my hands free only makes more sense in my eyes. I can even think of instances while working as well where using a BT is safer than holding a phone - I can still be removing a customers transmission w/ a BT in my ear...I can't do that holding a phone. If I can't have two hands free at a moments notice to remove a 300lb transmission, I sure as hell shouldn't be piloting 4000lbs down the road either.

I agree, it's easier to ticket people holding phones in general vs trying to decide if they we're texting or talking to someone. Not that I use it, but my phone can do just about everything via voice command, so in reality, I'd never need to hold it ever and I could still do all the same things I do today while driving. Cars are becoming the same way, from using the built-in phones, controlling the climate, music playing, etc. Based on the trend w/ electronics in cars, it seems that hands-free is what everyone is leaning towards...which I completely agree with. Banning cellphones all together, I think that'll be a tough sell unless they pull us over for seeing out lips moving...even w/o a BT in my ear, I've still got speakerphone or built-in BT in my stereo. I can see the future now....getting pulled over for singing a song while the officer next to me thinks I'm on the phone

.

JCL · #2 12-04-2010, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m5james

I've not once quoted an actual study on here, nor am I going to start now. You said I can't cite BT manufacturers, so can I cite our own, the holy grail of safety, BMW itself (and countless other automobile manufacturers)? BMW sells it as a safety feature, do they not?

Sure they do. But they don't guarantee your safety with it. They are simply responding to market pressures, and people want to talk on cell phones and drive, as evidenced both by the number of posts on the subject, and a quick scan of the cars I saw driving today (hands free law notwithstanding).

If BMW wanted to make vehicles that could only be used in a safe manner, they probably wouldn't sell cars that can do 250 km/hr in a school zone. Safe driving is all about the driver, not the car.

m5james · #3 12-04-2010, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCL

Sure they do. But they don't guarantee your safety with it. They are simply responding to market pressures, and people want to talk on cell phones and drive, as evidenced both by the number of posts on the subject, and a quick scan of the cars I saw driving today (hands free law notwithstanding).

If BMW wanted to make vehicles that could only be used in a safe manner, they probably wouldn't sell cars that can do 250 km/hr in a school zone. Safe driving is all about the driver, not the car.

Well heck, maybe we should remove airbags and reduce the speed limits down to 30mph since we cant trust people to make the right decision. In the meantime, i'll be driving safely while using a BT device in my equally safe car.

JCL · #4 12-05-2010, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m5james

In the meantime, I'll be driving safely while using a BT device in my equally safe car.

Until (and unless) your government blocks cell phones from working on your nation's highways. And with that, we are back on topic, as that was the proposal discussed in the first post

Thunder22 · #5 12-05-2010, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCL

Until (and unless) your government blocks cell phones from working on your nation's highways. And with that, we are back on topic, as that was the proposal discussed in the first post

It will never happen. The cell phone towers are primarily around the nations highways and serve the surrounding communities.

What happens when someone is in an accident and the phone doesn't work because the government blocked the tower access and someone dies? or someone whose house is served by a tower close to the highway can't call for emergency assistance in their own house because of bleed over "cell tower blocking"? Not to mention the money it would cost to repoint the towers.

Quicksilver · #6 12-04-2010, 01:04 AM

Most people can't talk on a cellphone and drive safely, study finds | Booster Shots | Los Angeles Times

Only a talented few can simultaneously talk on a cellphone and drive safely, according to a study from researchers at the University of Utah. The danger of a study like this is, of course, that everyone will think they are in the 2.5% of all people whom the study found to be "supertaskers." The pertinent fact is that 97.5% of us can't drive safely while talking on the phone -- even a hands-free phone.

The researchers assessed the performance of 200 people using simulated freeway driving while conducting a conversation on a hands-free phone that involved memorizing words and solving some math problems. Performance was measured in braking, reaction time, following distance, memory and math execution.

For the vast majority of people, performance suffered in both driving and comprehension. Braking time increased by 20% while following distances increased by 30%. Memory performance declined 11% and math performance 3%. The deterioration in performance was comparable to the impairment seen in drunk drivers, the authors said.

Thunder22 · #7 12-04-2010, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quicksilver

Most people can't talk on a cellphone and drive safely, study finds | Booster Shots | Los Angeles Times

Only a talented few can simultaneously talk on a cellphone and drive safely, according to a study from researchers at the University of Utah. The danger of a study like this is, of course, that everyone will think they are in the 2.5% of all people whom the study found to be "supertaskers." The pertinent fact is that 97.5% of us can't drive safely while talking on the phone -- even a hands-free phone.

The researchers assessed the performance of 200 people using simulated freeway driving while conducting a conversation on a hands-free phone that involved memorizing words and solving some math problems. Performance was measured in braking, reaction time, following distance, memory and math execution.

For the vast majority of people, performance suffered in both driving and comprehension. Braking time increased by 20% while following distances increased by 30%. Memory performance declined 11% and math performance 3%. The deterioration in performance was comparable to the impairment seen in drunk drivers, the authors said.

They did that same study and had the same results in 1927 when Ford put a Philco radio in a Model T.

200 People is not a significant representative sample of 200MM licensed drivers in the US.

JCL · #8 12-04-2010, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunder22

They did that same study and had the same results in 1927 when Ford put a Philco radio in a Model T.

That must have been just before they invented push button radios, to avoid driver distraction while tuning.

m5james · #9 12-04-2010, 01:46 AM

LOL...I can find 200 people within an hour of driving through Seattle who probably shouldn't be driving period, let alone w/ a phone. Also, that study was simulated vs real world....last I checked, I'm not studying for an exam or doing math equations @ 70mph. I know I'm biased, but considering the amount of driving I do (not near to a cross country trucker mind you) for roadtrips while watching TV to kill the time, I'd like to believe that I'm in that 2.5%. I was good enough to make it into Zundfolge if that counts for anything

I also attribute part of my driving skills to riding a motorcyle 9 months out of the year as well, as you learn to see EVERYONE and the idiotic things they do around you....short of someone t-boning you from the side running a light or something. I've had people in the car w/ me who freak out, grabbing the handle when they see someone preparing to make a lane change...I saw them getting ready to do it before I even got next to them becuase I was watching them from 3 cars back and staring at them as I'm goin past. You'd be surprised what you see when you watch people's heads through the glass instead of watching the vehicle itself and waiting for blinkers, etc since some people don't even have the courtesy to use those before doing their next stupid move.

I wonder if I can get an ST (supertasker) endorsement on my license!! I think it'd go nicely w/ the CDL and M endorsements I've already got. "Yes officer, I'm allowed to be talking while driving"..."thank you, carry on, sir".

Quicksilver · #10 12-04-2010, 02:01 AM

No matter how much research and proof that will be given. People will always think they are the 2.5%. (The exception) The fact is the 200 people in the initial post I linked to is not the first study done regarding this issue. These studies and the results found have been done for years and everyone who has an ounce of sense knows the facts.

Why don't people just admit they know this is an issue? The answer is simple. It's a case of mis-directed pride and that's ok until you finally kill someone. Then and only then will we hear the echo of their voice added to the countless others who say "I didn't think it could happen to me". Guess what; by that time it's to late.

applied cognition lab | the university of utah
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/07/te...1&pagewanted=1
applied cognition lab | the university of utah

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