Gun Topic/Debate - Page 14

motordavid · #**131** 03-13-2016, 08:35 PM

^ Good Post, RB/J...

Some of my unforgettable/fondest memories are of my maternal Grandfather, (a fookin genius civil engineering and environmental nut before the word environmental was coined), teaching me to shoot his .300 Savage when I was about 8. He had just bought it, was a deer hunter nut and saved his fanny off to buy that long gun, circa 1955.

We did several weekend trips to his cabin on the Mio River in northern lower peninsula of MI, over the next several summers and I learned to shoot that sumbitch...I have his/that gun to this day.

My Ol'Man was a WWII paratrooper jockey jumping out of planes in the Aleutian Islands for 4 years, snapping off a few at the Japanese nuts sneaking up onto the islands off Alaska, and he & I spent many an hour on the gun ranges when I was a kid. He was rated Expert, the highest below the burgeoning Sniper gang. I was always OK to good, depending on the day...my Father was a remarkable shooter.

My point is, besides the fond mems, is I have only regard and respect for fire arms, and learned my lessons well, as a kid. I have a few, want more, and careful and prudent gun ownership is a Right and a privilege.

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Ricky Bobby · #**132** 03-14-2016, 03:27 PM

Great mems Dave that you shared, my Grandfather was also a S.Sgt paratrooper, 11th Airborne in WWII in Japan and New Guinea....As I told my wife recently "There is no such thing as an American as 'well you've got enough guns, no need for more" and as the years go by I look forward to investing in a nice gun safe and building a collection worthy of a lifetime of responsible ownership.

Your last phrase was perfect - yes it is a Right to keep and bear arms (thank God for our Bill of Rights), but that Right has to be lawful and respectful, otherwise you lose the PRIVILEGE of having your Right be exercised (i.e. violent offender and your purchasing/ownership status revoked, etc)

Even though I did not grow up with firearms in my personal home, never in a million years would I have thought of a gun as a toy when I was a child, I don't care how young and curious. I was raised by parents who let me know what things were serious to my young life, what things are toys and what things weren't, and that includes what things could hurt/injure/kill people.

Sure you could be curious as a kid to go out on the frozen lake with your buddies as a kid, but how much risk do you take on that ice? How high up the ladder of risk (going farther out, running/jumping on the ice, etc) are you willing to go?

For example the guy yesterday talking about his accidental shooting of his kid sister, well he went up too far on the ladder of risk and fell off, badly.

-Anyone can pick up a gun and wave it around, it won't kill anyone - Rung 1
-Start pointing it at people/objects, it still won't go off, risk goes up - Rung 2
-Finger inside trigger guard while holding and pointing - Rung 3
-Not paying attention to previous rungs with finger inside trigger guard and pulled - Fell off the ladder, Badly.

TiAgX5 · #**133** 03-20-2016, 11:56 AM

Gotta love how the liberal media is describing the NY shooting on the 18th, the news anchor here in TX said "he pointed it toward his friend, and it went off".

How many rungs up the ladder was this MORON??? Lets count them.

1) The idiot didn't verify the gun was clear (no mag & chamber empty).

2) The idiot didn't practice basic barrel etiquette (never sweep or point the barrel ANYWHERE other then to the ground or SAFE direction).

3) The idiot put his finger inside the trigger guard of a loaded gun without intent of discharge.

He was standing one rung from the top of the ladder!

Man charged with fatal shooting of 18-year-old friend on Long Island: police | New York's PIX11 / WPIX-TV

Back to the media wording "it went off".

In over 30yrs of having loaded guns in my carry holster, in my vehicles, in instant access safes & in a long gun safe, I have YET to see one that "just went off".

edogg · #**134** 03-20-2016, 04:27 PM

Jeff Cooper's rules would have prevented this...

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TiAgX5 · #**135** 03-20-2016, 04:48 PM

So true.

For anyone unaware,,,,,Cooper's Four Rules

I guess all my guns are stupid, they don't know how to "go off".

Ricky Bobby · #**136** 03-21-2016, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiAgX5

In over 30yrs of having loaded guns in my carry holster, in my vehicles, in instant access safes & in a long gun safe, I have YET to see one that "just went off".

Literally its hilarious. That poor girl in San Francisco too who got shot by the 4-times paroled illegal immigrant felon is using that as his defense - "I found it sitting on the bench and I picked it up and it went off"

Is there an iPhone like touch switch on guns we don't know about? Almost like butt dialing a gun "by accident?" lol.

TiAg/edogg, gonna pick your brain for some advice on my next pistol purchase since you seem to be the Hickok45 of the forum

- I think I'm going to get a Glock 30 in .45 and then a pair of 9mm handguns, the Walther PPQM2 being one of them.

Currently I have the Beretta 102 which shares .22LR with my Ruger 10/22, my Taurus 605 which takes .357 and I have a S&W Model 66 I'll get getting within the next year or two so those will share calibers, and my 1911 .45ACP - I want another .45, and then looking at getting a pair of 9mm pistols, as I'm thinking my wife may not find the punch of the .45's not as fun to shoot. However, we are going to take the 1911 soon, if she seems to have fun shooting it, I'll scrap the idea of 9mm altogether for now and keep buying pistols in .45.

PPQM2 is definitely one of the first choices if I went 9mm, also looking into the new Ruger American Pistol (getting great reviews and a lot of gun for the money) or maybe a fuller sized Glock in 9mm.

edogg · #**137** 03-21-2016, 04:01 PM

I know you didn't ask me but I'm going to give you my 2 cents anyway.

What's your intended use for the Glock 30? Range toy? Carry gun?

Try shooting the Glock 30 before you buy it. Because it's a double stack .45acp, it's pretty thick. And it's a subcompact so it's pretty short. Those two things combined make it pretty uncomfortable to shoot.

Unless you HAVE to have a .45acp Glock, I'd give a close look at the Glock 26 if you want a compact pistol for defensive carry. It's 9mm so holds a few rounds more and has a thinner grip. And if you add a +1 or +2 round magazine extension, there's enough room for your pinky.

If you want something for the range in .45acp, then take a look at the Glock 21. It's the full size and much more pleasant to shoot. But in .45acp, I really prefer a 1911. The 1911 ergonomics are just perfect for the .45, which can't be matched by other styles.

Today's 9mm defensive ammo is really good. The Federal HST, for example, is fantastic. A lot of police agencies are switching back from .40 S&W to 9mm because the ammo performance has caught up with .40 S&W, 9mm is easier to shoot, and 9mm pistols hold more ammo.

The Ruger American is definitely an intriguing pistol. It's pretty new so there won't be much aftermarket support for it, though (e.g. holsters and magazines). And there isn't proven reliability yet. But being a Ruger, it's probably pretty good.

There are lots of striker fired pistols out now. Sig has the P320, Smith & Wesson makes the M&P series, and Springfield makes the Xd series. The world is your oyster.

TiAgX5 · #**138** 03-21-2016, 04:09 PM

Edogg, good points.

It comes down to comfort/usage.

I've yet to shoot the Ruger American Pistol, only held it on 2 occasions (one being over the weekend at Bass Pro).

Like the Novak sites, killer units on a pistol in this price range. Didn't like some of the "clues" that point to a poor combination of engineering/manufacturing/inspection/assembly quality, like the trigger safety lever pivot pin (the trigger plastic around the pivot pin hole had been center-punched a few times to displace plastic material to hold the pin in place).

I'm OCD about my carry units, and things like mashed plastic retaining a safety pin bug me.

If I where looking at 9mm handguns, that Wilson Combat Brigadier Tactical 92G I linked would be my "go to".

Wilson Combat actually produces all the "custom" parts, then sends them to Beretta for assembly (this was done to eliminate cost of discarded "standard" parts and excise taxes).

Wilsons Combats 1911s START at over $2500, making the 92G a great deal at less then 1/2 that (I would pay the extra $100 for the WC trigger job, another bargain).

This was supposed to be a Limited Edition production run of 1,000 units. Within a few weeks, all were sold. WC has taken an additional 1,500 orders and is still accepting orders. The gun buyers are taking notice of this exceptional firearm at an awesome price.

Wilson Combat | Beretta 92G Brigadier Tactical

I'm not in the 9mm market, but this gun has me ready to pull my wallet out!

edogg · #**139** 03-21-2016, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiAgX5

I've yet to shoot the Ruger American Pistol, only held it on 2 occasions (one being over the weekend at Bass Pro).

Like the Novak sites, killer units on a pistol in this price range. Didn't like some of the "clues" that point to a poor combination of engineering/manufacturing/inspection/assembly quality, like the trigger safety lever pivot pin (the trigger plastic around the pivot pin hole had been center-punched a few times to displace plastic material to hold the pin in place).

I'm OCD about my carry units, and things like mashed plastic retaining a safety pin bug me.

Ewww, seriously?! Something like that would be a deal breaker for me as well. A carry gun has to be 100% - no funkiness allowed.

I'd be interested to see what Gun Tests magazine has to say about the Ruger American. My dad has a subscription...maybe I'll ask him to save that issue for me if they test it.

Unlike other publications like Guns & Ammo or American Rifleman, Gun Tests doesn't pull any punches. If something doesn't work right, they say so. They buy their own equipment to test rather than have something supplied by the manufacturer so they're only beholden to the truth. Kind of like Consumer Reports for guns.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiAgX5

If I where looking at 9mm handguns, that Wilson Combat Brigadier Tactical 92G I linked would be my "go to".

Wilson Combat actually produces all the "custom" parts, then sends them to Beretta for assembly (this was done to eliminate cost of discarded "standard" parts and excise taxes).

Wilsons Combats 1911s START at over $2500, making the 92G a great deal at less then 1/2 that (I would pay the extra $100 for the WC trigger job, another bargain).

This was supposed to be a Limited Edition production run of 1,000 units. Within a few weeks, all were sold. WC has taken an additional 1,500 orders and is still accepting orders. The gun buyers are taking notice of this exceptional firearm at an awesome price.

Wilson Combat | Beretta 92G Brigadier Tactical

I'm not in the 9mm market, but this gun has me ready to pull my wallet out!

And this is where personal preference comes to play. I can't stand the long Beretta trigger. Even the initial double action pull of the Sig bugs me, which is one reason why I don't carry one.

That's not to say this Wilson-customized Beretta a bad gun. In fact, to the contrary, Wilson Combat can pretty much do no wrong. I just wish that I could afford more than just a few of their 1911 magazines.

Just an example of why it's important to find a range that has a large rental selection and try them out before you buy anything. See if you like it. Granted, the used gun market is pretty strong so if you buy it, try it, and hate it, you'll only be out $50 or so.

Ricky Bobby · #**140** 03-21-2016, 05:01 PM

Alright edogg I edited my post as was asking both for your input

So here's the deal, my in-laws bought a house on the Outer Banks and we will be using it for vacations and what not, extended weekend trips, real nice place, they will eventually retire there, for now, they are working in NJ - my FiL is 70 so he'll be retiring sooner.

So, my local range does offer a non-resident Florida CCW course which would enable me to carry when visiting down in North Carolina (we also have my wifes best friend in Raleigh NC), as well as mD's neck of the woods (Asheville area) which we have been meaning to visit, but its also good for VA, GA (we both love Savannah GA) and obviously Florida.

Part of my reasoning for the Glock 30 is a smaller, reliable .45ACP that I could optionally carry in the future, albeit not regularly.

Now, do I already have a gun I can carry when I get that permit? Yes, my Taurus 605SS (cue the Brazilian junk music) shooting .357 mag should be able to be carried easily. I just was thinking of adding a slightly smaller semi-auto to the mix.

Walther has a few decent pistols out now that are more compact, all in 9mm, the PPS M2, the P99C AS, and the CCP (although that one just looks cheap to me). Again, I'm starting to find the more compact pistols are for the most part in 9mm.

I've always wanted a Glock, one that would be fun to shoot, and yes I am also considering the 21 Gen 4 to add another .45ACP. I just am not confident that I would be able to conceal a full sized duty size gun on the rare times I could if I was down south, I'm 5'7" 185lbs and do not have large hands in the least - which was what had me considering the Glock 30 with a couple Pearce Grip Extensions on the mags - Heck, Hickok45 loves it so you know its fun!

I'm going to look up the other Glocks in 9mm for comparison, but does that kind of help you for what I'm looking for?

As far as the Ruger American goes, yeah it is getting great reviews, great company, made here, good pricing and value, etc, but that is even bigger than a Glock 21 so that would be a strict HD/range gun anyway.

My thought was if I bought a Glock 30 to get over my Glock lust, I could get a Walther PPQ 45 and get over TiAg's lust of the trigger and he sultry descriptions of the PPQ lol!

You and TiAg are definitely helping me for sure, growing up all I knew about was Glocks, 1911's, and Pump actions - the polymer frame market is ridiculously huge in our present time.

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