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  #1  
Old 03-15-2021, 12:06 PM
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Article on CV19 Origins

This is the most complete outlook onto the most likely origins that I have seen. It confirms what I thought was the most probable beginnings, from my layman's point of view obviously. The "wet-market" theory didn't hold water under scrutiny, however plausible.

Politico CV19 Origin Article

Given China's lack of cooperation and general pattern of self-interest, we are unlikely to ever know exactly what happened. Evidence (and most probably witnesses) has been eliminated. But the article makes a pretty compelling case.

Disclaimer: I am not anti-Chinese citizen, or anti-Chinese American, but am definitely anti-Chinese government. Some in this country seem to conflate the three for some reason. The question becomes, what is China's culpability for the economic and social damage? The loss of life has certainly been something the world has not seen in a very long time. In the US our case mortality rate is somewhere around 1.8%. If that holds true globally, the ultimate death toll will be substantial. Not to mention possible long term effects survivors might be left with.
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  #2  
Old 03-25-2021, 09:51 PM
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crystalworks:

Thank you for posting that very interesting and thought-provoking article from Politico. While I am not a conspiracy theorist sympathizer, I am currently in the camp of the skeptics regarding the original Chinese explanation that seems to have been generally accepted by many folks for the cause and origin of the COVID-19 virus. I am interested in learning more about what other evidence may be eventually uncovered, exposed, revealed, etc. Alas, my guess is that we may probably never really learn the truth, even if it was just an accident from a Chinese lab doing very risky research.

Along the lines of that article, I recall an interview by Bill Maher, comedian/host of Real Time with Bill Maher on HBO, with two guests on one of his recent shows. They were evolutionary biologists Heather Heying and Bret Weinstein, co-authors of A Hunter-Gathererís Guide to the 21st Century and co-hosts of the DarkHorse Podcast.

Their discussion was on speculation on the background and origin of the COVID-19 virus. The bulk of the conversation was theoretical realms, including the question of whether or not COVID-19 escaped from a Chinese laboratory in Wuhan, as opposed to the animal food market there. Their perspective and sentiments tend to echo that of the author of the Politico article that you linked in your post. FYI, here is a link to the YouTube interview:

AVB-AMG

https://youtu.be/ZMGWLLDSA3c

P.S. - Apparently, former CDC Director Robert Redfield believes the theory about the COVID-19 virus escaping from a Wuhan lab, but not with the speculation by some others that the virus was being studied as a possible biological warfare weapon. (See his interview on CNN).

https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/20...newday-vpx.cnn
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Old 04-08-2021, 11:32 PM
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0.05%


?


that is one-twentieth of 1 percent.


Are you trying to state a case fatality rate? or something else?



Anyway, Im open to any explanation. Personally the idea that it was a willful act by the government doesnt make much sense. That they were sloppy, irresponsible- screwing around with coronaviruses in a way that put the planet at risk? yes I find that believable. I guess we can wipe out $4T on our debt with them as compensation, no?




I remember Redfield when he falsified HIV vaccine trial results, tried to pull a fast one and make himself rich via a private company when he was supposed to be running a military effort.... as I recall Birx was involved with that too.
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Old 04-09-2021, 12:26 PM
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Ard, no not a case fatality rate. In the US that's ~1.8% using worldometer figures. I'll be honest, because numbers have been changing (and my memory sucks), I don't remember exactly what that 0.05% was calculated from... I think it might have been deaths vs. total US population? Though currently that sits at ~0.17% which seems very far off from the 0.05. I can't imagine that many more people have died since my post on 3/15? I think it more likely that I used incorrect figures for the 0.05%. So, editing that out of the first post. Mea culpa.

I agree with you that it does not make sense for it to be a purposeful act on the part of the CCP. Much more likely an accident by an understaffed, undertrained, and over-worked facility which the CCP then wanted to discredit and cover up because it doesn't look very good. Nevermind pissing off the world community. The question regarding their culpability was more rhetorical, I don't think there is any chance anyone is recovering anything from China willingly. Other options for hurting them financially (tariffs, etc) hurt the citizens of every country participating. Just another tax.

I don't trust what the WHO says at all anymore. Media has to be double and triple checked all the time and has it's own agenda depending on what you're watching. It's no wonder most of the country just picks a political side and always sides with them regardless of job performance/results. The time and effort required is more than most voters are willing to put in.

Hopefully, as time goes by, most of the facts will leak out or be discovered. But with the grip the CCP has on China and the people, I think what actually happened will never be known with 100% certainty. Just one more conspiracy to be debated.
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Old 04-09-2021, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crystalworks View Post
I agree with you that it does not make sense for it to be a purposeful act on the part of the CCP. Much more likely an accident by an understaffed, undertrained, and over-worked facility which the CCP then wanted to discredit and cover up because it doesn't look very good. Nevermind pissing off the world community. The question regarding their culpability was more rhetorical, I don't think there is any chance anyone is recovering anything from China willingly. Other options for hurting them financially (tariffs, etc) hurt the citizens of every country participating. Just another tax.

I don't trust what the WHO says at all anymore. Media has to be double and triple checked all the time and has it's own agenda depending on what you're watching. It's no wonder most of the country just picks a political side and always sides with them regardless of job performance/results. The time and effort required is more than most voters are willing to put in.

Hopefully, as time goes by, most of the facts will leak out or be discovered. But with the grip the CCP has on China and the people, I think what actually happened will never be known with 100% certainty. Just one more conspiracy to be debated.
crystalworks:

I agree with your assessment. I think the COVID-19 virus probably was somehow accidentally released/escaped from the Wuhan lab and spread from there. But , alas, I think that we will most likely never be able to prove it and know for sure due to the world-wide embarrassment that the Chinese would experience, as well as the well-deserved condemnation of China from the rest of the world that would surely result, more so than has already happened.

I think that almost everyone wants to get over this worldwide virus pandemic and start to resume some level of pre-COVID normalcy in their lives. That is understandable but also may be wishful thinking, to a certain degree. We have learned a number of very important and life-style changing lessons over the past year that will transform our country and many others, ranging from how we interact with strangers to how we conduct our work habits and routines and where we are located to perform that work.

Most normal, intelligent, educated people will be just glad to be vaccinated for COVID-19 and then get annual booster injections for whatever the evolving virus mutations start to spread, just like our annual influenza vaccinations. They understand that the vaccines are not 100% effective and that we still do not know all of their possible short and long term possible side affects. But we also understand that at this point, the benefits far outweigh the known risks, in order to take a major step in protecting ourselves and others from this awful virus pandemic.

The real wake-up call should be that this may not be a 1 in 100 years event, but that zoological viruses could materialize and spread again on a more frequent basis, due to our infringement into previously wild nature areas, as well as some cultures insistence on using all types of wildlife for either food or supposed health ailment cures. Sometimes, man can be his own worst enemy....

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Old 04-15-2021, 09:19 AM
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Old 05-18-2021, 10:02 PM
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FYI: Here is a link to the latest article that articulates the current questioning and debate about the origin of the COVID-19 virus.

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https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...lantic%20Daily
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Old 05-31-2021, 03:15 PM
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David Frum is one of the smarter people ive read....
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Old 05-31-2021, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
David Frum is one of the smarter people ive read....
I've watched/read him before and agree, he seems relatively reasonable. That article was a bit long-winded, but most writers tend to be.

The article restates the original I posted in terms of possible "origin stories" for the virus. I am less interested in the political implications of each, but everything these days is political, so what are you going to do. I agree with Frum that stating both theories have about equal credence at the moment and to deny one or the other is playing the politics of your side. The Dems would be wise to stop treating the public as children (however tempting that may be) and acknowledge they don't currently know how it originated, but that discrediting a lab-grown theory (for whatever purpose it was grown) without evidence to the contrary is not helpful to the world in general.

I also hadn't considered the actual lab staff may have initiated a cover up for fear of retribution from the CCP. Thought hadn't occurred to me. Guess that's why Frum writes speeches for presidents and I just read him.
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