Obama is not elected yet but the plan for more spending has already started.

[Wagner]

sad isn't it, that "change" is the response

[FSETH]

Originally Posted by Wagner

sad isn't it, that "change" is the response

The sad part is that so many people support this no talent ass clown.

And people, please save your posts about how smart he is. There are plenty of intelligent people in this country but only a small percentage of them are capable of being President of the United States. He has done nothing and proposes nothing, except change of course.

[Wagner]

Originally Posted by FSETH

The sad part is that so many people support this no talent ass clown.

And people, please save your posts about how smart he is. There are plenty of intelligent people in this country but only a small percentage of them are capable of being President of the United States. He has done nothing and proposes nothing, except change of course.

[Krimson X]

Originally Posted by lakai

Lets go with the facts. The bailout is not $700 billion it is $810 billion. It will be used to buy trouble assets from financial institutions and restore liquidity into the system. Troubled assets mainly consist of mortgage backed securities . The problem with this bill is that it is that it was not made to solve the problem. It is to only suppress the problem in the short term.

I like McCain's proposal and here is why.

Risky Mortgages are only the tip of the iceberg and not the only cause for the market going down so much. A majority of people do not understand the HUGE underlying problem of Credit Default Swaps (CDS). CDS are mainly unregulated insurance policies. There is estimated to be around $50-60 TRILLION worth of CDS floating around, no one can really know the exact figure because they can be hidden off the books. Unless we can stop foreclosures, these CDS will have to be paid out making nearly every bank to be wiped out.

McCain's proposal would prevent a large number of foreclosures, giving enough time for these CDS to expire (usually around 5 years) and pass laws to regulate banks from predatory lending and everything else that got us in this mess in the first place.

People balk at the $300 billion price tag, but don't really understand that it is very small price to pay for an actual SOLUTION. There are millions of ARM loans that have yet to reset. Anything that would prevent or minimize more foreclosures is the only way to solve our economic problems.

Can you tell me what Obama is proposing ??

Here is McCain's plan with the $300 billion bailout plan:

McCain’s mortgage plan would have Treasury buy up $300 billion in actual mortgages. It differs from using the Treasury as a direct financing source–a solution that is more plausible today because Treasury has already become a direct financing source for mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, has loaned $85 billion to American International Group, and is providing a credit line to the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp.

The $700 billion bailout would buy only the mortgage securities that are weighing down the banks, not mortgages themselves.

McCain's plan, which has quietly undergone revision in recent days, was first announced during Tuesday night's presidential debate with Barack Obama.

"I would order the secretary of the Treasury to immediately buy up the bad home-loan mortgages in America and renegotiate at the new value of those homes, at the diminished value of those homes, and let people make those -- be able to make those payments and stay in their homes," McCain said, adding: "Is it expensive? Yes."

In the immediate aftermath, as pundits scratched their heads, it was unclear how much the plan would cost, whether the government would pay face value for the devalued mortgages, or even if it was legal. Eventually, the Senator ceded that it would require "new money" beyond the funds included in the recent $700 billion economic rescue package.

Here is Obama's objection to McCain's plan:

The plan would cause the government "to massively overpay for mortgages in a plan that would guarantee taxpayers lose money, and put them at risk of losing even more if home values don't recover," Obama economic adviser Jason Furman said in a statement. "The biggest beneficiaries of this plan will be the same financial institutions that got us into this mess, some of whom even committed fraud."
McCain's proposal would devote nearly half the $700 billion from the recent financial rescue package to buying troubled mortgages directly, rather than indirectly aiding the nation's financial markets.


What Obama proposes:

Obama proposes going after and assess fines against unscrupulous lenders who deceptively sold subprime mortgages to millions of Americans and the proceeds used to help bail out borrowers facing a wave of foreclosures.

Obama said the government should use some of the $700 billion in the newly enacted financial rescue plan to buy up troubled mortgages.
"But we need to do it in a responsible way," he said. The government should not overpay for the mortgages, he said, or reward "the very lenders whose recklessness helped cause this crisis."
Taxpayers should be assured "a share of the benefits when our housing market recovers," he said, and the government should crack down "predatory lenders."


***UPDATE*** as of 2:30 CST. Barack lays out his plan for the economy.

"I'm proposing a number of steps that we should take immediately to stabilize our financial system, provide relief to families and communities, and help struggling homeowners," Obama said at a campaign event in Toledo, Ohio. "It's a plan that begins with one word that's on everyone's mind, and it's easy to spell: J-O-B-S."

Obama's plan comes as aides to Sen. John McCain said their candidate would likely wait to lay out any further plans until the Treasury issues a report or recommendations on what to do with the bailout.

Obama on Monday proposed a temporary tax credit for firms that create new jobs in the United States over the next two years, and penalty-free withdrawals from IRAs and 401(k)s in 2008 and 2009.

Obama called for new legislation that would give families the option of withdrawing as much as 15 percent of their retirement savings --- up to a maximum of $10,000 --- without facing a tax penalty this year or next. He also called for a temporary lifting of taxes on unemployment insurance benefits.

The Illinois senator also proposed a 90-day foreclosure moratorium for homeowners acting in good faith, and a new effort to address the growing credit crisis at the state and local level.

Under the Obama plan, the Federal Reserve and the Treasury would provide much the same kind of backing to state and municipal governments as the recent federal bailout did to the commercial credit market.

"We can't wait to help workers and families and communities who are struggling right now -- who don't know if their job or their retirement will be there tomorrow; who don't know if next week's paycheck will cover this month's bills," Obama said. "We need to pass an economic rescue plan for the middle-class ... and we need to do it right now."

The McCain campaign said Obama's economic rescue plan was a political move that would not provide solutions.

[LobsterX]

Originally Posted by Krimson X

Here is McCain's plan with the $300 billion bailout plan:


"I'm proposing a number of steps that we should take immediately to stabilize our financial system, provide relief to families and communities, and help struggling homeowners," Obama said at a campaign event in Toledo, Ohio. "It's a plan that begins with one word that's on everyone's mind, and it's easy to spell: J-O-B-S."

.

Of course it begins with J-O-B-S!!! Politicians always talk about how they would give JOBS to people! But wait! With all the welfare programs that Obama will create on top of the existing welfare programs (that are full of fraudulent cases thank you!), why would I work on a JOB? who needs a JOB when the govt will "take care of you"?

btw, I read this on a bumper sticker one time:

"Work harder; millions of people on welfare are depending on you..."

[Krimson X]

Originally Posted by LobsterX

Of course it begins with J-O-B-S!!! Politicians always talk about how they would give JOBS to people! But wait! With all the welfare programs that Obama will create on top of the existing welfare programs (that are full of fraudulent cases thank you!), why would I work on a JOB? who needs a JOB when the govt will "take care of you"?

btw, I read this on a bumper sticker one time:

"Work harder; millions of people on welfare are depending on you..."

You tell the people in Ohio that they are lazy and don't want to work.

The current unemployment rate is at 6.1%. In September, the number of long-term unemployed (those jobless for 27 weeks or more) rose by 167,000 to 2.0 million, an increase of 728,000 over the past 12 months. The long-term unemployed accounted for 21.1 percent of total unemployment in September.

The number of persons who worked part time for economic reasons
rose by 337,000 to 6.1 million in September, an increase of 1.6 mil-
lion over the past 12 months. This category includes persons who
would like to work full time but were working part time because their
hours had been cut back or because they were unable to find full-time
jobs.

[LobsterX]

Originally Posted by Krimson X

You tell the people in Ohio that they are lazy and don't want to work.

.

uhmmmm...did I miss something here? Where did I say that in my last post? I must be going blind!!!!!!!

[Krimson X]

Originally Posted by LobsterX

uhmmmm...did I miss something here? Where did I say that in my last post? I must be going blind!!!!!!!

No. You didn't say that, but I read your statement to mean that the probelm with our unemployment situation is the welfare system. There is no way to stem the economic problems if responsible individuals are loosing their jobs and are unable to put food on the table, let alone pay the bills. Based on the unemployment data, middle America has been hit the hardest.

Originally Posted by LobsterX

why would I work on a JOB? who needs a JOB when the govt will "take care of you"?

Barack's employment plan seems to be a rational solution by providing incentives to companies for creating new jobs by giving them tax breaks and credits... instead of giving these companies reason to outsource overseas for cheaper labor or to cut their workforce. I guess your statement was just an assumption.

[FSETH]

Krimson, you may have touched on this and I just missed it, but how does Obama plan on helping the people who have mortgages that aren't right for them and not in some indirect way help the lenders? Obama thinks that McCains plan will benefit lenders, but his will as well as far as I can see.

Also, lets not forget that it is the Democrats that got us here in the first place. Slick Willy is partially responsible for lowering Fannie Mae's standards to what they are today.

Lets really step back and look at the situation; a Democratic President loosens Fannie Mae requirements, more Democrats from the Clinton admin (Franklin Rianes and others) are appointed to run Fannie mae, Republicans warn that Fannie Mae is getting out of control, Franklin Rains gets his pockes fat to the tune of millions of dollars in Fannie Mae bonuses, Barack Obama appears to be one the the highest compensated senators with regard to Fannie Mae funds and you think we should actually let the Democrats and Barack Obama of all people correct the problem? Are you serious? Don't you think the Dems have had control of Fannie Mae and the mortgage industry long enough? It hasn't really worked out that well, has it?

Obama proposes going after and assess fines against unscrupulous lenders who deceptively sold subprime mortgages to millions of Americans.

That may work to hlep prevent this from happening in the future, but how is assessing fines to "unscrupulous lenders" that may or may not even be in business anymore going to change the situation we are currently in? If we do that the economy and mortgage industry is going to immediately recover because we got he bad guys? Yeah right. More political heart string tugging.

"We can't wait to help workers and families and communities who are struggling right now -- who don't know if their job or their retirement will be there tomorrow; who don't know if next week's paycheck will cover this month's bills," Obama said.

By fining banks and lenders and creating jobs? That is how Obama thinks he is going to make the situation better in the imediate future for middle class families? I guess he would say that McCain hates new jobs. Who doesn't want to create new jobs?

[FSETH]

Originally Posted by Krimson X

You tell the people in Ohio that they are lazy and don't want to work.

Here is the problem with Ohio. In many parts of the state they are stuck in the Industrial age. It is getting better though and some new technology business are opening their doors. I lived there the first half of my life and visit all the time. I was just outside Cleveland last week. The whole state is very industrial and aggricultural based. The Steel Mill of all places is the big draw in the city of Lorian, just west of Cleveland. The Ford plant has closed down a few large plants in the area and no new industries are moving in.

Areas like this are hit really hard when the real estate market takes a turn for the worse because the real estate and construction industries have such an impact on every other aspect of the market. The less people buy cars the less auto plants need steel then people get laid off, homes go into foreclosure, and so on.