How many of you are outraged by this fact?

[blondboinsd]

Originally Posted by MrLabGuy

Now that was reasonable. I'm just really upset about the teachers union allocation of funds in a time when the school system in California is in the toilet. I'm very likely to cast my vote in a more reasonable manner come election day but I can't make any promises.

My core values are as I said Libertarian.

Yes I agree that the schools are terrible. Honestly I have a major issue with the funding determined by the surrounding taxes (is it still done that way?) When I was in school it was and I come from a lower upper class upbringing and I think it sucks. I really think it's unfair and ask anyone how someone from the "projects" REALLY has an equal shot to make it. I would say determination can only go so far. My wonder is if that money would really create a different outcome if spent as you ask. A budget is a budget and I think the educational system in CA has been the whipping boy for decades and I don't see it changing. Sad huh?

[Eric5273]

Originally Posted by MrLabGuy

Now that was reasonable. I'm just really upset about the teachers union allocation of funds in a time when the school system in California is in the toilet. I'm very likely to cast my vote in a more reasonable manner come election day but I can't make any promises.

My core values are as I said Libertarian.

I'm pretty sure the libertarian position on this would be to vote against the law.

[MrLabGuy]

Originally Posted by Eric5273

I'm pretty sure the libertarian position on this would be to vote against the law.

Yes...I know that Eric. I'm just pissed at the Teachers Union. An endorsement would be fine but to spend $1,250,000 on a non-school related issue in a time when the schools are a mess is inexcusable.

[MrLabGuy]

Originally Posted by blondboinsd

Yes I agree that the schools are terrible. Honestly I have a major issue with the funding determined by the surrounding taxes (is it still done that way?) When I was in school it was and I come from a lower upper class upbringing and I think it sucks. I really think it's unfair and ask anyone how someone from the "projects" REALLY has an equal shot to make it. I would say determination can only go so far. My wonder is if that money would really create a different outcome if spent as you ask. A budget is a budget and I think the educational system in CA has been the whipping boy for decades and I don't see it changing. Sad huh?

Hard work and determination usually wins out regardless of your socioeconomic upbringing. I know that from personal experience.

Good luck with your proposition and remember. If it passes you can still live a wonderful life with your partner regardless of what others think and say. What really counts in life is how you and your partner feel about each other.

[Quicksilver]

blondboinsd;

Good comment. It's too bad it's not that simple.

I looked up some information this evening about
proposition 8 and the claim from both sides that
marriage will or will not be taught in schools.

On the one had it will not because they don't
use the term Marriage in the curriculum.

On the other hand California State Law does require
what is called "family diversity" training for school
age children. The premise is school safety but the
concept is based on the following information found
at this link. http://www.ebar.com/news/article.php...s&article=1378

With an estimated 6 million to 10 million children living in American LGBT households, according to the 2000 U.S. census, and a growing number of schools dealing with a variety of queer issues within the administration and classroom, building awareness and tools to educate people about acceptance is a hot topic, especially for children in elementary school. According to the Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network's 2005 National School Climate Survey, nearly nine out of 10 students reported hearing homophobic comments frequently on campus.

Did you notice the statement "building awareness and tools to educate people about acceptance is a hot topic, especially for children in elementary school"?

Perhaps thats what some of the uproar is about. The state is requiring
children in elementary school and K-12 to be educated about acceptance.
And the reason they use is "because it's about diversity and it's about preventing violence."

So In essence they are being asked to accept training regarding acceptance of these so called different kinds of family's some of which will be married as same sex couples. That's something some parents don't agree with and cannot support.

I don't have an opinion or the answer regarding what the state should do about this issue. But it does indeed present in interesting dilemma for all involved. Especially parents who find themselves at odd's with an educational system that is teaching something they don't agree with,
and those who wish to live a lifestyle they want others to accept as normal but in reality is at odds with traditional family structure.

From where i sit it appears that both sides are stretching their truth
to fit their own position which is disingenuous at best.

Originally Posted by blondboinsd

Good Riddance...I'd say to ask yourself what you would say if your child was gay. How are you going to feel if put in that situation and you voted "yes" and told your child he wasn't equal to you. Try thinking about it from a different side and it might change your opinion....just my 2 cents

[blondboinsd]

Originally Posted by Quicksilver

blondboinsd;

Good comment. It's too bad it's not that simple.

I looked up some information this evening about
proposition 8 and the claim from both sides that
marriage will or will not be taught in schools.

On the one had it will not because they don't
use the term Marriage in the curriculum.

On the other hand California State Law does require
what is called "family diversity" training for school
age children. The premise is school safety but the
concept is based on the following information found
at this link. http://www.ebar.com/news/article.php...s&article=1378

With an estimated 6 million to 10 million children living in American LGBT households, according to the 2000 U.S. census, and a growing number of schools dealing with a variety of queer issues within the administration and classroom, building awareness and tools to educate people about acceptance is a hot topic, especially for children in elementary school. According to the Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network's 2005 National School Climate Survey, nearly nine out of 10 students reported hearing homophobic comments frequently on campus.

Did you notice the statement "building awareness and tools to educate people about acceptance is a hot topic, especially for children in elementary school"?

Perhaps thats what some of the uproar is about. The state is requiring
children in elementary school and K-12 to be educated about acceptance.
And the reason they use is "because it's about diversity and it's about preventing violence."

So In essence they are being asked to accept training regarding acceptance of these so called different kinds of family's some of which will be married as same sex couples. That's something some parents don't agree with and cannot support.

I don't have an opinion or the answer regarding what the state should do about this issue. But it does indeed present in interesting dilemma for all involved. Especially parents who find themselves at odd's with an educational system that is teaching something they don't agree with,
and those who wish to live a lifestyle they want others to accept as normal but in reality is at odds with traditional family structure.

From where i sit it appears that both sides are stretching their truth
to fit their own position which is disingenuous at best.

I see no issue with teaching diversity, it creates a well-rounded well accepting person. Furthermore while I see the argument, it's 1 sided and local districts develop and adminster their own teaching plans, it's a provision that seperates us from Mass. The Like CA Superintendant calls it shameful to use children and it is. It's a fear based tactic.

[Eric5273]

Originally Posted by blondboinsd

I see no issue with teaching diversity, it creates a well-rounded well accepting person.

Don't you know that when you teach kids that being gay is ok, more of them will turn gay? (I'm joking of course, but some people really do believe that)

[blondboinsd]

Originally Posted by Eric5273

Don't you know that when you teach kids that being gay is ok, more of them will turn gay? (I'm joking of course, but some people really do believe that)

Oy, I can hear The Yes on 8 Campaign saying that

[Lambeau]

Originally Posted by blondboinsd

What a crack pot website, I just threw up dinner

I throw up my dinner when I see two guys holding hands!!!

[blueskies]

"We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness"

Discrimination against someone on basis of their race, gender, or sexual orientation is just plain wrong. Proponents of Prop 8 are little, if any different, to the people who supported the anti-interracial marriage laws for all those years. The state constitution shouldn't be used to turn some people into second-class citizens.

Hopefully my fellow Californians will do the decent thing and vote NO on prop 8.