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  #31  
Old 11-02-2008, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSETH
The problem with that is that you only disputed one of the numerous claims in the slide show. There is a lot of truth to it.

I don't think it is a black or white issue. There are some shades of grey here. It would be arrogant on my part to assume thet every single point in the slide show is 100% correct and can't be disputed. I simply said that there is truth in the slide show and if you can't admit that then you are either misinformed, lying to yourself or in complete denial.

To insinuate that this is 100% bogus or mostly bogus because it may not be 100% true is just wrong. If that is what you think then please explain why or prove each point to the contrary. Don't just attack one aspect of a 25+ point topic and assume that it is 100% incorrect.

I understand questioning things and that is why I was the one who said it is not 100% true. If you think that it is 100% incorrect, then you are as much of a sheep as the people who think it is 100% accurate, IMO.

I will have to say, that it is actually a little ironic that the two defending this the most either can't or won't vote.
Why are you putting the burden of proof on me? I just commented that based on several points which I knew the background on, the authors had little or no credibility left. Why would I give them the benefit of the doubt on the rest of the points? That would be illogical. In a courtroom, the authors would be termed unreliable witnesses, and any good information they had would be tossed out because of how they came across on other points.

There may be some truth in the slide show, agreed, but not simply because the issue is included in the slide show. And, it gets lost in the extremism. I haven't seen the proof, but if you have it, great.

As to irony, I am not defending something here, I am just suggesting that the original slide show is crap. That isn't a partisan position. If you or someone else posted something equally one-sided about another candidate, you would find me dismissing it just as quickly.
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  #32  
Old 11-02-2008, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x5GuyInLA
the same can be said about some of things that have been said about McCain. Does that mean anything that is true loses it's credibility because of the untrue things?
Quick can answer for himself, but since we are essentially saying the same thing here:

I would say that truth doesn't lose credibility. Truth is truth. People or organizations lose credibility. And yes, if an organization lies a lot, then they lose credibility and the items that they say carry little or no weight, even if some of them happen to be true.

And I would say that yes, it works in both directions (Republicans and Democrats, in this case)
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  #33  
Old 11-03-2008, 01:08 AM
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But it seems to me that trying to find meaningful portions
of truth among so much hyperbole is an exercise in futility.
But anyone can find a shred of truth among any lie.
It just depends on which part you want to cling to.
One could highlight both you know.

I don't think anyone around here is willing to take a stand
on facts submitted in evidence regarding what is or what
isn't. The problem facing us all is that fact that none of us
are in a position to verify the evidence provided by sources
which clearly are biased on one side or the other.

Personally i find the majority of it humorous beyond belief
and taking any of it seriously is nothing more than an exercise
in gullibility. Flim Flam at it's best.




Quote:
Originally Posted by x5GuyInLA
the same can be said about some of things that have been said about McCain. Does that mean anything that is true loses it's credibility because of the untrue things?
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Last edited by Quicksilver; 11-03-2008 at 01:17 AM.
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  #34  
Old 11-03-2008, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCL
Why are you putting the burden of proof on me? I just commented that based on several points which I knew the background on, the authors had little or no credibility left. Why would I give them the benefit of the doubt on the rest of the points? That would be illogical. In a courtroom, the authors would be termed unreliable witnesses, and any good information they had would be tossed out because of how they came across on other points.

There may be some truth in the slide show, agreed, but not simply because the issue is included in the slide show. And, it gets lost in the extremism. I haven't seen the proof, but if you have it, great.

As to irony, I am not defending something here, I am just suggesting that the original slide show is crap. That isn't a partisan position. If you or someone else posted something equally one-sided about another candidate, you would find me dismissing it just as quickly.
I am not putting the burden of proof on you. I simply said that you disputed only one aspect of the original post. There were numerous points made and there is truth to a lot of it. Take that for what it is worth and believe what you want.

I can agree that it was a partisan message, but don't discount the whole post because of that. We are not in court here. If I said that 2 + 2 = 4 and the earth is flat, does that make the first part of that statement false? Nope. There was far more truth in that message than false statements. Why aren't we talking about those?

Like I said from the begging, there may be some innacuracies in the slide show, but there are more truths. Believe what you want and look at it however you wish, but I don't think it is fair to discount the truths altogether.
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  #35  
Old 11-04-2008, 12:59 AM
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FSETH: This is somewhat theoretical, but here goes.

If you are watching what you believe may be a biased source, and you catch several inaccuracies, I am just suggesting that the source then has little credibility with the remaining items that may or may not be true. It doesn't make those other items any less true. But how do you personally discern which ones are true and which ones aren't?

While I am proposing that you discount the biased source because it has no credibility, you are suggesting that there are still some true items. Those positions aren't necessarily in conflict. We can agree completely. You just need to find a new and trusted source to bring the true items forward, since this source is discredited. If you know those other items are true, then it must be from a trusted source, and that is exactly what we need here, another source.

Put another way, you say it is biased, but some items are true. I say very likely correct. However, we need a source for the true items, and there isn't one in this thread.

Somehow I think this matters less given the time to the election.
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  #36  
Old 11-04-2008, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCL
FSETH: This is somewhat theoretical, but here goes.

If you are watching what you believe may be a biased source, and you catch several inaccuracies, I am just suggesting that the source then has little credibility with the remaining items that may or may not be true. It doesn't make those other items any less true. But how do you personally discern which ones are true and which ones aren't?

While I am proposing that you discount the biased source because it has no credibility, you are suggesting that there are still some true items. Those positions aren't necessarily in conflict. We can agree completely. You just need to find a new and trusted source to bring the true items forward, since this source is discredited. If you know those other items are true, then it must be from a trusted source, and that is exactly what we need here, another source.

Put another way, you say it is biased, but some items are true. I say very likely correct. However, we need a source for the true items, and there isn't one in this thread.

Somehow I think this matters less given the time to the election.
I think we can finally, somewhat agree. I originally said that there was truth in the original post, but it was not 100% true. I never said it wasn't biased or that it was the best message for getting the points across. I wasn't the one who posted it. I just said there was truth to it. That is all.

It scares me a little to think that some believe that 100% of it is true, but it also scares me that there are others like BB that think none of it is true. Many of those topics have been discussed before here and proven to be true and some are debatable at best. I don't know how else to say it.
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