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  #1  
Old 01-15-2009, 09:44 PM
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Never forgive a traitor

Just passing on what I believe to be an important story to remember:


Jane Fonda is being honored as one of the '100 Women of the Century.'
BY BARBRA WALTERS


Unfortunately, many have forgotten and still countless others have never known how Ms. Fonda betrayed not only the idea of our country, but specific men who served and sacrificed during Vietnam

The first part of this is from an F-4E pilot.

The pilot's name is Jerry Driscoll, a River Rat.

In 1968, the former Commandant of the USAF Survival School was a POW in Ho Lo Prison the ' Hanoi Hilton.' Dragged from a stinking cesspit of a cell, cleaned, fed , and dressed in clean PJ's, he was ordered to describe for a visiting American 'Peace Activist' the 'lenient and humane treatment' he'd received.

He spat at Ms. Fonda, was clubbed, and was dragged away. During the subsequent beating, he fell forward on to the camp Commandant 's feet, which sent that officer berserk.

In 1978, the Air Force Colonel still suffered from double vision (which permanently ended his flying career) from the Commandant's frenzied
application of a wooden baton.

From 1963-65, Col. Larry Carrigan was in the 47FW/DO (F-4E's). He spent 6 years in the 'Hanoi Hilton', the first three of which his family only knew he was 'missing in action'. His wife lived on faith that he was still alive.
His group, too, got the cleaned-up, fed and clothed routine in preparation for a 'peace delegation' visit. They, however, had time and devised a plan to get word to the world that they were alive and still survived. Each man secreted a tiny piece of paper, with his Social Security Number on it, in the palm of his hand.

When paraded before Ms. Fonda and a cameraman, she walked the line, shaking each man's hand and asking little encouraging snippets like: 'Aren't you sorry you bombed babies?' and 'Are you grateful for the humane treatment from your benevolent captors?' Believing this HAD to be an act, they each palmed her their sliver of paper. She took them all without missing a beat. At the end of the line and once the camera stopped
rolling, to the shocked disbelief of the POWs, she turned to the officer in charge and handed him all the little pieces of paper.

Three men died from the subsequent beatings. Colonel Carrigan was almost number four but he survived, which is the only reason we
know of her actions that day.

I was a civilian economic development advisor in Vietnam , and was captured by the North Vietnamese communists in South Vietnam in
1968, and held prisoner for over 5 years.

I spent 27 months in solitary confinement; one year in a cage in Cambodia ; and one year in a 'black box' in Hanoi My North Vietnamese captors deliberately poisoned and murdered a female missionary, a
nurse in a leprosarium in Ban me Thuot, South Vietnam , whom I buried in the jungle near the Cambodian border. At one time, I weighed only about 90 lbs. (My normal weight is 170 lbs.) We were Jane Fonda's 'war criminals.'

When Jane Fonda was in Hanoi , I was asked by the camp communist political officer if I would be willing to meet with her.

I said yes, for I wanted to tell her about the real treatment we POWs received... and how different it was from the treatment purported by
the North Vietnamese, and parroted by her as 'humane and lenient.'

Because of this, I spent three days on a rocky floor on my knees, with my arms outstretched with a large steel weights placed on my hands,
and beaten with a bamboo cane. ;

I had the opportunity to meet with Jane Fonda soon after I was released. I asked her if she would be willing to debate me on TV. She never did answer me.

These first-hand experiences do not exemplify someone who should be honored as part of '100 Years of Great Women.' Lest we forget...' 100 Years of Great Women' should never include a traitor whose hands are
covered with the blood of so many patriots.

There are few things I have strong visceral reactions to, but Hanoi Jane's participation in blatant treason, is one of them. Please take the time to forward to as many people as you possibly can. It will eventually end up on her computer and she needs to know that we will never forget.

RONALD D. SAMPSON, CMSgt, USAF
716 Maintenance Squadron, Chief of Maintenance
DSN: 875-6431
COMM: 883-6343


PLEASE HELP BY SENDING THIS TO
EVERYONE IN YOUR ADDRESS BOOK. IF
ENOUGH PEOPLE SEE THIS MAYBE HER
STATUS WILL CHANGE
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  #2  
Old 01-15-2009, 09:51 PM
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Snopes doesn't agree with the story. While Jane Fonda did not support the war, this piece has fabrications in it (including the beating deaths).

First circulated in 1999.

http://www.snopes.com/military/fonda.asp
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Old 01-15-2009, 09:55 PM
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You may be right. The story itself may be stretched. It is still hard to argue that she wasn't a traitor.
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Old 01-15-2009, 10:07 PM
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I don't think she was a traitor.

I do think what she did was thoughtless and insensitive, but if you want to have freedom of speech you have to allow people to speak, even if you don't like what they are saying.

Did you read the Snopes link?
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Old 01-15-2009, 10:14 PM
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Yes.
I don't think that freedom of speech extends to commiserating with an enemy in a time of war and providing propaganda to the detriment of our troops.
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Old 01-16-2009, 02:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbirk
I don't think that freedom of speech extends to commiserating with an enemy in a time of war and providing propaganda to the detriment of our troops.
How about selling weapons to the enemy?

Oliver North was convicted and served time in prison for using his position as deputy director of the National Security Agency to illegally sell weapons to Iran and then send the money to a Latin American terrorist group.

Yet he currently hosts a "patriotic" television program on Fox News called "War Stories", he regularly appears on the Hannity & Colmes program where Hannity often calls him a patriot, he regularly appears at Sean Hannity's "freedom" concerts, and he wrote a book last year called "American Heroes".

Which is a worse case of treason? A government agent illegally selling weapons to a country we are enemies with so that he can fund terrorism in a foreign country, or an actress publicly stating that she supports the other side in an unpopular and controversal war?

Why is it that nobody ever makes a big stink about his acts of treason?
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Old 01-17-2009, 01:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric5273
How about selling weapons to the enemy?

Oliver North was convicted and served time in prison for using his position as deputy director of the National Security Agency to illegally sell weapons to Iran and then send the money to a Latin American terrorist group.

Yet he currently hosts a "patriotic" television program on Fox News called "War Stories", he regularly appears on the Hannity & Colmes program where Hannity often calls him a patriot, he regularly appears at Sean Hannity's "freedom" concerts, and he wrote a book last year called "American Heroes".

Which is a worse case of treason? A government agent illegally selling weapons to a country we are enemies with so that he can fund terrorism in a foreign country, or an actress publicly stating that she supports the other side in an unpopular and controversal war?

Why is it that nobody ever makes a big stink about his acts of treason?
It isn't treason if it is done by and for the gov. North was not embezzling money via the arms sales. You need to learn the definition of treason. A policy with which you disagree is not treasonous.
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Old 01-17-2009, 01:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCL
Snopes doesn't agree with the story. While Jane Fonda did not support the war, this piece has fabrications in it (including the beating deaths).

First circulated in 1999.

http://www.snopes.com/military/fonda.asp


This is a lie, and I disagree, she isn't a traitor in my eyes. People said the same thing about people who disagreed over the Iraq war.
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Old 01-17-2009, 02:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by statdoc
It isn't treason if it is done by and for the gov. North was not embezzling money via the arms sales. You need to learn the definition of treason. A policy with which you disagree is not treasonous.
So you are saying that if a current NSA employee secretly sold weapons to North Korea and then gave the money to Hamas, that wouldn't be an act of treason?

What Oliver North did was exactly that. He sold weapons to the enemy. He was not doing it "for and by" the government. He abused his government position as an intelligence operative to commit illegal activity. There were trade sanctions against Iran which were passed by the US congress. Weapon sales were specifically forbidden. The congress had also ruled against giving support to the terrorists in Nicaragua.


Of course, we all know the truth about the weapon sales and the "October Surprise". But Ollie testified in front of congress that he acted alone and was not ordered to do so by the Reagan White House, and so based on that he committed an act of treason.
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Old 01-17-2009, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric5273
Of course, we all know the truth about the weapon sales and the "October Surprise". But Ollie testified in front of congress that he acted alone and was not ordered to do so by the Reagan White House, and so based on that he committed an act of treason.
So you think intelligence officials tell the truth when testifying to Congress? How naive!
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