Finally, US has Spoken...

[Wagner]

Red Herring, doesn't matter.

More important question, why are the Dems trying to find a 51 vote clause to pass NATIONAL reform without the nation behind it?

[chile1]

Originally Posted by Krimson X

I'm just saying. Come on! WTF does Hitler and the Nazis have to do with health care reform, or Obama?

YouTube - Barney Frank Confronts Woman At Townhall Comparing Obama To Hitler

YouTube - Woman Yells Heil Hitler To Jewish Man at Las Vegas Town Hall

It does not surprise me since this is what's being spoon-fed by the Fox pundits (i.e. Hannity, Beck, O'Reilly) and these morons just run with it. As I had stated before, what people crave are alternative ideas, Reasonable Criticism, not wild-eyed, fanatical, over-the-top warnings of a disappearing republic, fascism on the march, socialism, Communism, dictatorship, dogs/cats living together - mass hysteria!

These idiots (that try to represent the conservative movement) makes legitimate Reagan Conservatism look ridiculous to the vast majority of non-partisan, voters. Nice going Faux News.....

[X5rolls]

Thankfully the public is awake now in terms of actually wanting details on simple questions like how will this be paid for?

Unfortunately, the bills don't strike at some of the major costs like malpractice insurance costs for doctors and tort reform to lower liability payments.

Clearly there are real savings that can be achieved without resorting to a gov't run option that creates unfair competition for the insurance industry. Big gov't isn't the answer - lowering costs and covering the un-insured should be reconsidered outside of the current left agenda leaning congress.

The public is awake now and the halo effect is slipping away. Thankfully.

[Wagner]

Originally Posted by X5rolls

Thankfully the public is awake now in terms of actually wanting details on simple questions like how will this be paid for?

Unfortunately, the bills don't strike at some of the major costs like malpractice insurance costs for doctors and tort reform to lower liability payments.

Clearly there are real savings that can be achieved without resorting to a gov't run option that creates unfair competition for the insurance industry. Big gov't isn't the answer - lowering costs and covering the un-insured should be reconsidered outside of the current left agenda leaning congress.

The public is awake now and the halo effect is slipping away. Thankfully.

Hope so..kool-aid is almost gone

[chile1]

Kool-aid drinkers are those that compare Obama to Hitler because of what they repeatedly hear from the Faux News pundits.

[Wagner]

Originally Posted by chile1

Kool-aid drinkers are those that compare Obama to Hitler because of what they repeatedly hear from the Faux News pundits.

They learned from Liberals You know, believe what you hear as fact without any research..that is what gets Junior Senators elected President....

[alewifebp]

Originally Posted by Krimson X

I'm just saying. Come on! WTF does Hitler and the Nazis have to do with health care reform, or Obama?

YouTube - Barney Frank Confronts Woman At Townhall Comparing Obama To Hitler

YouTube - Woman Yells Heil Hitler To Jewish Man at Las Vegas Town Hall

Hitler has nothing to do with health care. They are in the fringe and not representative of the typical person at these events, no matter what Pelosi and her minions say.

However, I can certainly point to a litany of such comparisons made in regards to Bush.
Bush as Hitler, Swastika-Mania: A Retrospective zomblog

[chile1]

Originally Posted by alewifebp

Hitler has nothing to do with health care. They are in the fringe and not representative of the typical person at these events, no matter what Pelosi and her minions say.

However, I can certainly point to a litany of such comparisons made in regards to Bush.
Bush as Hitler, Swastika-Mania: A Retrospective zomblog

Let me guess....It's media bias, huh......
And good o'l, patriotic, flag-waving Faux News is the only outlet with fair and balanced journalism, blah, blah, blah..

[X5Flyboy]

let me say this as simple as I can

If Congress can't give us the same healthcare they enjoy, then whatever plan they come up will be rejected by America if the politicians do not accept the same healthcare for themselves

And I still say that if they deal with a national standard for malpractice/tort reform, this wold reduce costs without costing the taxpayer any money.

[cbirk]

An interesting piece around this debate:


Who Are the Uninsured?

by Michael D. Tanner

Michael Tanner is a senior fellow at the Cato Institute and coauthor of Healthy Competition: What's Holding Back Health Care and How to Free It.
Added to cato.org on August 17, 2009

This article appeared in the Philadelphia Inquirer on August 20, 2009.

No single topic drives the health care reform debate like the number of uninsured Americans, variously numbered in speeches and ads at 45 million, 46 million, 47 million, or even 50 million. Unfortunately, most of what we think we know about the un insured is wrong.
For the record, according to the latest figures from the Census Bureau, 45.6 million Americans currently lack health insurance. This is actually down slightly from the 47 million that were uninsured in 2006. However, those numbers don't tell the whole story.
For example, roughly one quarter of those counted as uninsured — 12 million people — are eligible for Medicaid and the State Children's Health Insurance Program (S-CHIP), but haven't enrolled. This includes 64 percent of all uninsured children, and 29 percent of parents with children. Since these people would be enrolled in those programs automatically if they went to the hospital for care, calling them uninsured is really a smokescreen.
Another 10 million uninsured "Americans" are, at least technically, not Americans. Approximately 5.6 million are illegal immigrants, and another 4.4 million are legal immigrants but not citizens.

The reality is that most people without health insurance are uninsured for a relatively short period of time.

Nor are the uninsured necessarily poor. A new study by June O'Neill, former director of the Congressional Budget Office, found that 43 percent of the uninsured have incomes higher than 250 percent of the poverty level ($55,125 for a family of four). And slightly more than a third have incomes in excess of $66,000. A second study, by Mark Pauly of the University of Pennsylvania and Kate Bundorf of Stanford, concluded that nearly three-quarters of the uninsured could afford coverage but chose not to purchase it.
And most of the uninsured are young and in good health. According to the CBO, roughly 60 percent are under the age of 35, and fully 86 percent report that they are in good or excellent health.
Finally, when we hear about 45 million Americans without health insurance, it conjures up the notion that all of those are born without health insurance, die without health insurance, and are never insured in between. The reality is that most people without health insurance are uninsured for a relatively short period of time.
Only about 30 percent of the uninsured remain so for more than a year, approximately 16 percent for two years, and less than 2.5 percent for three years or longer. About half are uninsured for six months or less. Notably, because health insurance is too often tied to employment, the working poor who cycle in and out of the job market also cycle in and out of health insurance.
None of this is to suggest that many of those without health insurance do not face severe hardship, or that we shouldn't try to expand health insurance coverage. But it does mean that we might be able to deal with this problem in a much more targeted way, rather than having a huge and expensive new government program.
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For example, young, healthy, and well-off people might be more inclined to buy insurance if it cost less. That means ending regulations, like community rating, that increase the cost of insurance for younger and healthier workers; eliminating costly mandated benefits; and creating more competition by allowing people to purchase insurance across state lines.
And if people are losing their insurance when they lose their jobs, we should move away from a health care system dominated by employer-provided health insurance. That means changing the tax treatment of health insurance.
The current system excludes the value of employer-provided insurance from a worker's taxable income. However, workers purchasing health insurance on their own must do so with after-tax dollars. This provides a significant tilt toward employer-provided insurance. Workers should receive a standard deduction, a tax credit, or, better still, large Health Savings Accounts (HSAs) for the purchase of health insurance, regardless of whether they receive it through their job or purchase it on their own.
We can then look at those people who may need some kind of subsidy to better afford insurance.
Doctors know that if you don't get diagnosis correct, you are not going to prescribe the right treatment. The same is true with health care reform. In trying to expand coverage to those who need it, let's make certain we understand the facts.