What's the matter with Donald Trump.

[Maruzo]

Originally Posted by crystalworks

He's wanted that when Congress was bickering back and forth and wouldn't even send anything to his desk for the last 6 months. Now the Republicans and Dems know they HAVE to work together. I wouldn't doubt he vetos it out of spite. And in this case I can't say I blame him.

These packages are a huge fail anyway. Would have been much better (and cheaper) to send all w-2 filers checks every month instead of the programs and bureaucracy they added. Rent would get paid (no need for eviction moratorium), food could still be purchased, etc. I'm not for handing money out to people generally, but I'd much rather it be handed to the public tax-payers and put back into the economy than used as cheap capitol for large, or successful businesses, squandered or lost in the system, or otherwise wasted.

The only thing in the packages that might be useful is the money to the states for vaccinations and PPE expenditures. All the paycheck protection programs were garbage as was the additional unemployment. Just give that money directly to tax payers.

Who do you think is made of businesses, large or small?

It's people.

There are employees and their family members behind every single businesses.

To help keep these businesses in solvency is to keep their employees on payroll and their families fed.

The program is not easy to apply for. You actually have to show all your financials to the lender, the same way you do when you apply for a business loan, except it's much more strict.

The money you borrow can only be forgiven if you can show you've kept all your employees on the payroll even when you're not open for business due to shutdown mandates.

[crystalworks]

Originally Posted by Maruzo

To help keep these businesses in solvency is to keep their employees on payroll and their families fed.

Giving those employees money directly (in many cases more than their employment would pay), negates that problem. Actually, with the limits they put on the checks I'd venture that under almost all circumstances people would have more money to survive on than under their normal employment.

[Maruzo]

Originally Posted by crystalworks

Giving those employees money directly (in many cases more than their employment would pay), negates that problem.

That's the most rediculous thing.

You're pessimistic because you think it's all about corruption and waste.

It's actually more about keeping the massive amounts of small and medium businesses alive so the economy won't crumble.

[crystalworks]

Originally Posted by Maruzo

It's actually more about keeping the massive amounts of small and medium businesses alive so the economy won't crumble.

If the majority of Americans have money in their pockets, usually more than they would have before the pandemic, the economy would not crumble. Spending would go up. Renters would not be hurt because tenants could pay. There are so many positives. You're not thinking this through.

Businesses open and close everyday. Under all circumstances. BTW, if I was a business owner (retail, restaurant, etc) in an industry that was affected by the lockdowns. I would have closed immediately, moved all inventory to storage, broke my lease, filed business closure with the city. I wouldn't have borrowed a dime from the PPP or anyone and would live off of my savings (and/or get another job). Reopen (if it made sense financially) after the pandemic was under control.

Originally Posted by Maruzo

Your way will breed more homeless, where as the PPP program helps to keep these people employeed.

I disagree. And I'm a conservative when it comes to spending.

Wait until the rent moratorium ends, then we'll see how much the PPP has contributed to the homeless population and the costs to cities to deal with it.

Edit: sorry eviction moratorium, not rent.

[Maruzo]

Originally Posted by crystalworks

If the majority of Americans have money in their pockets, usually more than they would have before the pandemic, the economy would not crumble. Spending would go up. Renters would not be hurt because tenants could pay. There are so many positives. You're not thinking this through.

Businesses open and close everyday. Under all circumstances. BTW, if I was a business owner (retail, restaurant, etc) in an industry that was affected by the lockdowns. I would have closed immediately, moved all inventory to storage, broke my lease, filed business closure with the city. I wouldn't have borrowed a dime from the PPP or anyone and would live off of my savings (and/or get another job). Reopen (if it made sense financially) after the pandemic was under control.



I disagree. And I'm a conservative when it comes to spending.

Wait until the rent moratorium ends, then we'll see how much the PPP has contributed to the homeless population and the costs to cities to deal with it.

You forgot to mention that many of these people will not have a job to go back to while they continue to receive government handouts.

Once the money dries up, and it will quickly dry up, they will not have a job to go back to.

Businesses does open and close everyday.

But the economy is driven by these businesses, not the people.

Businesses keep people employeed.

And economy will crumple without the support of massive number of businesses proping it up.

Your way is actually more socialist in thinking, and mine more Republican.

What??

[crystalworks]

Originally Posted by Maruzo

You forgot to mention that many of these people will not have a job to go back to while they continue to receive government handouts.

Once the money dries up, and it will quickly dry up, they will not have a job to go back to.

Businesses does open and close everyday.

But the economy is driven by these businesses, not the people.

Businesses keep people employeed.

And economy will crumple without the support of massive number of businesses proping it up.

Your way is actually more socialist in thinking, and mine more Republican.

What??

That irony was not lost on me. I chuckled a bit.

Other businesses will open up in place of those that close. I agree employees will not have the same jobs to come back to in many cases.

Some businesses are hiring more than ever, Wal-Mart, Amazon, etc. Online retailers and such. In fact, I think those companies are the larger threat to businesses than anything else.

[Maruzo]

Originally Posted by crystalworks

That irony was not lost on me. I chuckled a bit.

Other businesses will open up in place of those that close. I agree employees will not have the same jobs to come back to in many cases.

Some businesses are hiring more than ever, Wal-Mart, Amazon, etc. Online retailers and such. In fact, I think those companies are the larger threat to businesses than anything else.

True. Changes in the business landscape comes due to necessity. The prosperity of these online business actually means much less good jobs for the people.

They end up getting lousy warehousing jobs as a result. Long hours, easily replaceble because it requires much less specific skill sets.

Since the software and the algorithms took care of most of the sales rep's jobs, along with a few other jobs that people will no longer be able to find.

Many people will be without jobs without PPP helping to keep their companies afloat. That is pretty plain to see.

This pandemic is actually fast tracking the replacement and removal of many traditional jobs that people holds because the online business is taking them away.

[Maruzo]

Originally Posted by crystalworks

Giving those employees money directly (in many cases more than their employment would pay), negates that problem. Actually, with the limits they put on the checks I'd venture that under almost all circumstances people would have more money to survive on than under their normal employment.

Giving the business the money means the employees will also get the money. However, this also means their jobs won't become obsolete, their daily routines aren't disrupted, they are not just staying home, umemployeed because the company they work for has filed for bankruptcy due to drastically reduced business in 2020.

Can you imagine what a paying job does to a person's confidence? Especially if he's got 3 kids to feed and a mortgage to pay?

It's easy to keep feeding a homeless, but much harder to convince him to work for his keep.

Your way will breed more homeless, where as the PPP program helps to keep these people employeed.

Big difference.

Even after you discount the possible waste and corruption.