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-   -   Transmission problems, delayed engagement.. (https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/x5-e53-forum/110254-transmission-problems-delayed-engagement.html)

turquise1 05-06-2019 12:49 PM

Transmission problems, delayed engagement..
 
Hey people,


I posted here several years ago regarding my e53 transmission issues. Eventually I got it rebuilt and things were good for a while (for 30k miles).


Now I have the delayed engagement issue. It happens from P / N to D but no issues with R engagement. I have around 2 secs of delay before that little soft kick to engage but the transmission does not engage every time. Sometimes I have to go back to P and try D again. It eventually engages and once engaged everything is good as long as I dont go back to P, OR.. If I dont come to a stop and car is facing a minor uphill. It acts like it's on N and I have to go back to P and D to re-engage. Once engaged, it's good.


I have replaced the fluid twice (to Castrol Transmax Euro) and changed filter. There were no big particles in the pan and no bad smell so I thought things were ok (again, car only had 30000 easy miles after the rebuild).


I have also replaced the solenoids, thinking they may be sticking. I purchased a rebuilt set but realized at the last moment that the EDS1 solenoid was the one for the older models 0501 209 875 (.4 to 5.4 bar) and not the original (green) 0501 210 060 (.5 to 5.5 bar). I replaced it anyway hoping that it should not make a big difference.


Since things were still the same, I decided to work on the valve body, thinking there would be a spring in there broken or something causing all this. There was not a broken spring, valves looked ok, so just after a clean up and a Transgo Pressure regulator valve upgrade, I put things back together and the car seems to engage better but there is still that issue. I have not reset the adaptations on it yet, but that probably will not fix the problem either.


So, what's left other than the costly clutch repairs?


Ideas please?


Thanks,


Ozzie


E53 4.4 01 (ZF5HP24)

andrewwynn 05-06-2019 12:53 PM

Sounds like pressure valve 1 issues. R uses higher pressure I've read so why it is not having the same problem. What scan tool are you using ? Get some real-time pressure values. I have a different transmission in my 3.0 but I could take a picture of my RPM v pressure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

turquise1 05-06-2019 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewwynn (Post 1161632)
Sounds like pressure valve 1 issues. R uses higher pressure I've read so why it is not having the same problem. What scan tool are you using ? Get some real-time pressure values. I have a different transmission in my 3.0 but I could take a picture of my RPM v pressure.


I am using INPA. Is it possible to read pressure values with that?


Thanks,


Ozzie

andrewwynn 05-07-2019 02:03 AM

I don't use laptop solution but I'm pretty sure yes. Find your egs module and find the pressures. I have a 328xi I work on and has a slow to grab 1st gear (no real pickup before 1500 RPM). Symptoms indicate likely the seal to the valve body is leaking so the primary solinoid can't generate full pressure. Your said you had your valve body out? Did you use new seal/s when replacing? Word on the street is expect problems if you re-use the valve body seal. No way I would.


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RRPhil 05-07-2019 05:24 AM

Unfortunately, itís not possible to determine pressures with a diagnostic tool because there are no pressure transducers in the transmission. All you can measure is the current driving the solenoids, but this doesnít tell you whether or not the solenoids are producing the required pressures.

When you had your valve body assembly out, would you have noticed if there was a crack forming in the upper valve block?

https://i260.photobucket.com/albums/.../RRPhilVB1.jpg

https://i260.photobucket.com/albums/...s94b31533.jpeg

This crack in the S-V 1 to KV-F circuit produces similar symptoms to the ones you are describing.

https://i260.photobucket.com/albums/...psxi9gulc1.jpg

When warm/hot, the transmission effectively drops into neutral when stationary as the leakage causes the A-clutch to disengage. This only affects 1st gear. Reverse and the other forward gears are unaffected. If the engine revs are raised then the increased pump flow overcomes the leakage and the A-clutch engages, giving you 1st gear. The symptoms are worse when the transmission is hot because the fluidís reduced viscosity increases the leakage through the crack.

Eventually the crack works its way along the casting until a piece of the valve block breaks off.

https://youtu.be/wUsc-sNFvJU

Phil

tttomttt 05-07-2019 07:30 AM

I know this may sound way too easy but is the fluid level correct?

SlickGT1 05-07-2019 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RRPhil (Post 1161689)
Unfortunately, itís not possible to determine pressures with a diagnostic tool because there are no pressure transducers in the transmission. All you can measure is the current driving the solenoids, but this doesnít tell you whether or not the solenoids are producing the required pressures.

When you had your valve body assembly out, would you have noticed if there was a crack forming in the upper valve block?

https://i260.photobucket.com/albums/.../RRPhilVB1.jpg

https://i260.photobucket.com/albums/...s94b31533.jpeg

This crack in the S-V 1 to KV-F circuit produces similar symptoms to the ones you are describing.

https://i260.photobucket.com/albums/...psxi9gulc1.jpg

When warm/hot, the transmission effectively drops into neutral when stationary as the leakage causes the A-clutch to disengage. This only affects 1st gear. Reverse and the other forward gears are unaffected. If the engine revs are raised then the increased pump flow overcomes the leakage and the A-clutch engages, giving you 1st gear. The symptoms are worse when the transmission is hot because the fluidís reduced viscosity increases the leakage through the crack.

Eventually the crack works its way along the casting until a piece of the valve block breaks off.

https://youtu.be/wUsc-sNFvJU

Phil

Phil you are a gentleman and a scholar. I think my thoughts represent the forum. Thank for continuing supporting us with your infinite knowledge of these transmissions. Really nice to see you reply. Ty.

crystalworks 05-07-2019 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlickGT1 (Post 1161699)
Phil you are a gentleman and a scholar. I think my thoughts represent the forum. Thank for continuing supporting us with your infinite knowledge of these transmissions. Really nice to see you reply. Ty.

Seconded. I've thought this after reading everyone of Phil's posts. :thumbup:

turquise1 05-07-2019 09:54 AM

I agree with everyone about how amazingly helpful RRPhil has been in this forum and I was actually hoping he would respond to me this time too.


I have added some more (half liter) fluid yesterday and reset the adaptations with INPA. Engagement feels smoother but there is still that delay.


Another thing I noticed was INPA showed the transmission temp kinda high even after car was parked for half an hour after a 5 min drive. It showed 45c which I thought was too high. I will check again today and see what it says. I am planning to change that cable harness anyway because some of the solenoid connection plastic parts are broken..


Regarding the upper valve body crack, I took several photos (I will post one) and I did not see a crack there. Please take a look and let me know if you see anything unusual from the photo..


Thanks,


Ozzie
http://www.d-signsolutions.net/downl...4_131824_1.jpg

SlickGT1 05-07-2019 10:44 AM

I might be seeing shit. But that looks like a crack below the 1058. From left count 4 and 5 tube looking thing. Looks like it goes from tube 4 over the hole to tube 5.

Also, having Phil specifically call out your symptoms, I would be looking for a new valve body at this point. Next time you open it up, replace that shit.


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