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  #11  
Old 10-29-2010, 01:24 AM
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  #12  
Old 10-29-2010, 12:50 PM
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Yeah but the mileage the 335d gets is better than what a lot of people are getting in comparable vehicles. Additionally i believe some folks were considering the 335d because it still has enough guts to make them feel good about driving it. For me at least a 2 litre four cylinder would not be my choice. Great mileage isn't everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCL View Post
Only problem with that plan is that the 335d doesn't have great mileage. If we want to get serious about a good handling 3 series BMW, with great mileage, then we should demand that BMW bring the 320d Efficient Dynamics model to North America. Using comparative figures from the Euro models, it gets 63% better fuel economy than the 335d on the combined cycle fuel consumption tests. In Europe, you can get all the options and features you want on the smaller-engined models, unlike here. The 2 litre four cylinder is also much lighter, so handling will be improved. BMW has said they will bring four cylinder diesels to North America, so this plus the new X1/X3 with the same 2.0d engine are a possibility.
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  #13  
Old 10-29-2010, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quicksilver View Post
Yeah but the mileage the 335d gets is better than what a lot of people are getting in comparable vehicles. Additionally i believe some folks were considering the 335d because it still has enough guts to make them feel good about driving it. For me at least a 2 litre four cylinder would not be my choice. Great mileage isn't everything.
I agree that great mileage isn't everything, but the 320d would have the handling, features, BMW familiarity, just not the dragstrip performance. In traffic in the city, is an 8 second 0-60 so bad? You can't go 60 in the city anyway. I had a 318 back in the early '90s, and the 320d would outperform it in the real world. It also wouldn't cost anywhere near the $50k that was quoted above. Automakers have long used the phrase "people will pay anything for economy" and have milked that obsession.

Philosophizing for a moment, I think that North America uses far too much fossil fuel, and is obsessed with hp ratings in vehicle. I think the automakers having the ability to offer real alternatives that move us forward, with vehicles like the 320d, but instead they are selling the myth that owners can have it all, 0-60 in six seconds for example, 23/36 mpg is 'good enough', etc. If they provided a choice of two diesel models, I wager they would sell more 320d models than 335d models. Sure, offer the 335d, and charge a lot for it. Just provide a real alternative that is much more (63% more) economical for those that want it. The development work is already done. The vehicle exists.

Many years ago, my 1.9 VW TDI Passat had something like 120 hp. It cruised just fine at 200 km/hr in Germany on our trips to Italy. It was the 'red badge' engine that was shared with Audi. That same engine came in 90, 100, and 110 hp versions, from memory. The 320d, a vehicle of the same size and weight, has 184 hp, which is pretty similar to the 186 hp we had in our E46 325xi, and that vehicle performed fine.

But hey, I would buy a 20d X3 before I bought a 35d X3.
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Last edited by JCL; 10-29-2010 at 01:18 PM.
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  #14  
Old 10-29-2010, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCL View Post
I agree that great mileage isn't everything, but the 320d would have the handling, features, BMW familiarity, just not the dragstrip performance. In traffic in the city, is an 8 second 0-60 so bad? You can't go 60 in the city anyway. I had a 318 back in the early '90s, and the 320d would outperform it in the real world. It also wouldn't cost anywhere near the $50k that was quoted above. Automakers have long used the phrase "people will pay anything for economy" and have milked that obsession.

Philosophizing for a moment, I think that North America uses far too much fossil fuel, and is obsessed with hp ratings in vehicle. I think the automakers having the ability to offer real alternatives that move us forward, with vehicles like the 320d, but instead they are selling the myth that owners can have it all, 0-60 in six seconds for example, 23/36 mpg is 'good enough', etc. If they provided a choice of two diesel models, I wager they would sell more 320d models than 335d models. Sure, offer the 335d, and charge a lot for it. Just provide a real alternative that is much more (63% more) economical for those that want it. The development work is already done. The vehicle exists.

Many years ago, my 1.9 VW TDI Passat had something like 120 hp. It cruised just fine at 200 km/hr in Germany on our trips to Italy. It was the 'red badge' engine that was shared with Audi. That same engine came in 90, 100, and 110 hp versions, from memory. The 320d, a vehicle of the same size and weight, has 184 hp, which is pretty similar to the 186 hp we had in our E46 325xi, and that vehicle performed fine.

But hey, I would buy a 20d X3 before I bought a 35d X3.
I had a 118d rental for a long weekend in Germany, and that made me damn happy even though it maxed out at 130 mph on the Autobahn, with its 140 hp it could still kick its tail out on a u-turn. I'd still get a 123d if I had the choice.
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  #15  
Old 10-29-2010, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Boston X5 4.4 View Post

Pretty big numbers.
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  #16  
Old 10-29-2010, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Eurosport View Post
over 50k for a 3 series?
you might want to start looking for a much better diesel aka E-class
Why is it better? I'm not sure that an E-class is going to give me the dynamics of a 3 series and I'm more interested in mileage than owning a MB. Maybe I'm missing something.
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  #17  
Old 10-29-2010, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCL View Post
Only problem with that plan is that the 335d doesn't have great mileage. If we want to get serious about a good handling 3 series BMW, with great mileage, then we should demand that BMW bring the 320d Efficient Dynamics model to North America. Using comparative figures from the Euro models, it gets 63% better fuel economy than the 335d on the combined cycle fuel consumption tests. In Europe, you can get all the options and features you want on the smaller-engined models, unlike here. The 2 litre four cylinder is also much lighter, so handling will be improved. BMW has said they will bring four cylinder diesels to North America, so this plus the new X1/X3 with the same 2.0d engine are a possibility.

To me 26/36 with the level of performance the 335d brings is very appealing. I'm all for demanding something from BMW but I'm not familiar with the Euro models and therefore had not considered them viable at this point in my analysis. I'm all for the higher mileage but I'd be interested in keeping the level of performance of the 335d and not going down much.
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  #18  
Old 10-29-2010, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCL View Post
In traffic in the city, is an 8 second 0-60 so bad? You can't go 60 in the city anyway.

If they provided a choice of two diesel models, I wager they would sell more 320d models than 335d models.
I agree with your conclusions for the majority of buyers out there. I've been bitten by the performance bug many years ago and am not ready to step down to a slower vehicle at this time. For me, I am willing to pay the price for speed/quickness etc. If however I lived in the city and did 90% of my driving there though, I'd be stepping down, way down in terms of wanting/needing performance. Just wouldn't get to use it and therefore it would make no sense.
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  #19  
Old 11-02-2010, 09:35 PM
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0-60 is definitely not a good gauge of the power of a diesel car.. Diesels tend to be low revving which means you will require a gear change to get to 60 so it's not all about 0-60...


Quote:
Originally Posted by JCL View Post
I agree that great mileage isn't everything, but the 320d would have the handling, features, BMW familiarity, just not the dragstrip performance. In traffic in the city, is an 8 second 0-60 so bad? You can't go 60 in the city anyway. I had a 318 back in the early '90s, and the 320d would outperform it in the real world. It also wouldn't cost anywhere near the $50k that was quoted above. Automakers have long used the phrase "people will pay anything for economy" and have milked that obsession.

Philosophizing for a moment, I think that North America uses far too much fossil fuel, and is obsessed with hp ratings in vehicle. I think the automakers having the ability to offer real alternatives that move us forward, with vehicles like the 320d, but instead they are selling the myth that owners can have it all, 0-60 in six seconds for example, 23/36 mpg is 'good enough', etc. If they provided a choice of two diesel models, I wager they would sell more 320d models than 335d models. Sure, offer the 335d, and charge a lot for it. Just provide a real alternative that is much more (63% more) economical for those that want it. The development work is already done. The vehicle exists.

Many years ago, my 1.9 VW TDI Passat had something like 120 hp. It cruised just fine at 200 km/hr in Germany on our trips to Italy. It was the 'red badge' engine that was shared with Audi. That same engine came in 90, 100, and 110 hp versions, from memory. The 320d, a vehicle of the same size and weight, has 184 hp, which is pretty similar to the 186 hp we had in our E46 325xi, and that vehicle performed fine.

But hey, I would buy a 20d X3 before I bought a 35d X3.
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