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  #71  
Old 05-18-2017, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcredliner View Post
The flat earth reference is not an RAA but it is suggesting what has been attributed to Pythagoras's conclusion the earth is round was a scientific conclusion that was ignored due to so much anecdotal views to the contrary.

It is very simply flawed to make a conclusion from personal experience, especially with this small of a sample. Opinions, anecdotal input have absolutely no connection to science or technical substantiation.

There is no reference in the service manual recommending replacement of suspension hardware. I have seen that recommendation from aftermarket vendors. But as you said it is a recommendation. That is not the same as DO NOT REUSE.

As far as some technical support to not reuse the bolts see posts 65 and 66. I have an open mind to consider any supporting scientific data you can provide. Otherwise, your rationale for using the bolts again is flawed, so it is clear, flat wrong. More of the same will not change that.
Speaking of spheres... this discussion reminds me of one. We've both agreed there is no scientific data to support either position. So...you replace them, I'll not replace them. Others can decide from the experience of others on here what they want to do.

BTW, cheapest I've seen these is at Pelican for $14.75 if anyone wanted to pick up a set. Looks to be "cheap" or these.
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Last edited by crystalworks; 05-18-2017 at 08:55 PM.
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  #72  
Old 05-18-2017, 09:20 PM
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I have been exposed to technical data re nuts/bolts, thread pitch, bolt strength, TTY etc. etc. This bolt is not TTY bolt from the look of it.
BMW engineers always overkill when writing technical manual for liability reasons.

The truth is: BMW enthusiasts, being enthusiast, read the repair manula like a Bible.

BMW mechanics: they re-use the bolts all the time.
The only time they use new bolts is engine head gasket job.
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  #73  
Old 05-19-2017, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crystalworks View Post
Speaking of spheres... this discussion reminds me of one. We've both agreed there is no scientific data to support either position. So...you replace them, I'll not replace them. Others can decide from the experience of others on here what they want to do.

BTW, cheapest I've seen these is at Pelican for $14.75 if anyone wanted to pick up a set. Looks to be "cheap" or these.
We don't agree. I have provided links to technical data and invited you to do so.
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  #74  
Old 05-19-2017, 12:18 PM
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$14.75 for the whole set of bolts? Or for each bolt? If that price is for the whole set then I can just get new ones— I always thought they cost way more than that.
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  #75  
Old 05-19-2017, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cn90 View Post
I have been exposed to technical data re nuts/bolts, thread pitch, bolt strength, TTY etc. etc. This bolt is not TTY bolt from the look of it.
BMW engineers always overkill when writing technical manual for liability reasons.

The truth is: BMW enthusiasts, being enthusiast, read the repair manula like a Bible.

BMW mechanics: they re-use the bolts all the time.
The only time they use new bolts is engine head gasket job.
"Exposed" is entirely different than educated. "By the look of it" means it is a guess. It's an assumption to state BMW engineers overkill due to liability as rationale to ignore the do not use statement. How many BMW mechanics have told you personally they don't replace the bolts and how many dealer parts dept. have you asked if they stock the bolts? How many techs have told you the only bolts they don't reuse are the cylinder head bolts. "The truth is" statement has no merit either. The readers of an X5 manual accept they do not have the knowledge to tackle a DIY without a qualified source for instruction, specific information etc. I suspect they follow the manual to the letter until they are positive there is a better way or the manual is inaccurate. Posting they are blind followers or it is their repair bible is insulting. Following directions is a strength not a weakness.

For some, not necessarily you, it doesn't matter how important it is to follow instructions to the letter. They will justify their actions, in this case to cut cost, by seeking any kind of support for what they are going to do anyway. Those that have posted here that are not replacing the bolts are doing so without a factual foundation for their decision. When you are posting an opinion it really helps readers to start the post with--IMO-in my opinion--- or something similar.

FYI- I don't follow directions all the time. I feel sure we all know that sometimes it works out fine, sometimes it doesn't and sometimes it is an expensive lesson. Over the last several decades if I don't know for sure there will be no problem if I ignore directions, I have chosen to be safe than potentially sorry.

I think the core issue is the cost that drives seeking justification for taking the risk. Ask yourself--knowing BMW clearly states to replace the bolts and if the cost was $1.00 ea. would you ignore the warning and reuse them? Do you reuse cylinder head bolts?
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  #76  
Old 05-19-2017, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyzabolotny View Post
$14.75 for the whole set of bolts? Or for each bolt? If that price is for the whole set then I can just get new onesó I always thought they cost way more than that.
The dealer list cost is $20 ea. It makes no sense to me and it doesn't to my parts guy at the dealer either but that's the cost.
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  #77  
Old 05-19-2017, 06:25 PM
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My cousin is an independent BMW mechanic in L.A. area. I also know 3 BMW mechanics here. They just laugh at the whole thing. They re-use the bolts.

Cost for me is not an issue, I can afford the bolts. I have discussed this in detail in another thread, this bolt is as big as the wheels lugs. It is not TTY bolt.

I don't really care what you say. I reuse the bolts. I think people need to use their own judgment and stop being fearful.

I ways use new cyl head bolts. That is probably the only place I care about using new bolts.
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  #78  
Old 05-19-2017, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by cn90 View Post
My cousin is an independent BMW mechanic in L.A. area. I also know 3 BMW mechanics here. They just laugh at the whole thing. They re-use the bolts.

Cost for me is not an issue, I can afford the bolts. I have discussed this in detail in another thread, this bolt is as big as the wheels lugs. It is not TTY bolt.

I don't really care what you say. I reuse the bolts. I think people need to use their own judgment and stop being fearful.

I ways use new cyl head bolts. That is probably the only place I care about using new bolts.
Oh, it is four mechanics, certainly they are representative of all techs. Of course everyone uses their own judgment. Even when they let someone make a decision for them it is their judgment to do so. You are still missing the point by being locked in thinking I am trying to influence anyone's decision. The effort is merely to contribute information to help readers make an informed decision. I have no skin in the game. Unfortunately that challenges your opinion. Well past a lost cause to reach common ground. There is no intention to offend you.
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Last edited by bcredliner; 05-19-2017 at 07:41 PM.
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  #79  
Old 05-19-2017, 07:45 PM
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No lost cause.

I find it amazing people spent countless hours discussing a stupid bolt.

Volvo, BMW etc. etc. says change the crush washer on the drain bolt when changing oil. I challenged that theory by re-using the same washer (just pay attention to the orientation as the bolt creates a small indent on the washer, so keep the same orientation). So my Volvos and BMWs have the same crusher washer from factory (I bought some of these cars new from the showroom), after so many oil changes. I keep the brand-new crush washers in a container, I have so many of these washers, it is not funny.

This goes to prove that not everything mentioned in the repair book is that important. I create new procedures for repair all the time.

The only place I care about using new bolts is cylinder head job.

Some Honda factory manual tells people to use new wheel bolts when they replace their tires LOL...
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  #80  
Old 05-19-2017, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
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No lost cause.

I find it amazing people spent countless hours discussing a stupid bolt.

Volvo, BMW etc. etc. says change the crush washer on the drain bolt when changing oil. I challenged that theory by re-using the same washer (just pay attention to the orientation as the bolt creates a small indent on the washer, so keep the same orientation). So my Volvos and BMWs have the same crusher washer from factory (I bought some of these cars new from the showroom), after so many oil changes. I keep the brand-new crush washers in a container, I have so many of these washers, it is not funny.

This goes to prove that not everything mentioned in the repair book is that important. I create new procedures for repair all the time.

The only place I care about using new bolts is cylinder head job.

Some Honda factory manual tells people to use new wheel bolts when they replace their tires LOL...
Just curious--when you have the new crush washer why not use it and why keep them if you're never going to need them?
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