Have you had to replace your rear subframe?

[jpilk99]

Originally Posted by andrewwynn

I'm a little confused; the shop after replacing sub-frame bushings said the actual sub-frame was compromised? it's conceivable they discovered the likes of a bad weld while replacing the bushings, etc. I've never heard of such on an X5 but they are starting to get pretty old.

Yeah; which only compounds my feeling that ...I've been "had". Never going back there. Going to call the shop and discuss with them, see if there's anything they have to say - and considering a call to the Better Business Bureau.

[andrewwynn]

A shop could come to the conclusion subframe need replacing when they can't get proper alignment but there are aftermarket control arms that are adjustable to make up for that. Unless there is damage or a stunning amount of rust to cause a fault the subframe is fine.

Looking at mine a while ago I could see where a misdiagnosis would come: the rust prevention coating will fail and it will delaminate as a thick scale. It looks structural because it will look like 6mm thick piece of metal broke off. It's 5.5mm of rubber and 0.5mm of rust. Non issue just looks scary. It also amounts to 85% of the rust on my car.


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[bcredliner]

FYI, X5s in good condition usually wear the inside of the tires faster than the outside It's possible all you needed was new tires and have the alignment checked.

Somewhere around 100,000 miles it is time to do a suspension rebuild. Much better to do it all at once instead of piece by piece, especially if you don't DIY. Saves a lot in labor cost and dying suspension parts can cause new parts to wear faster.

It was a good idea to go back to the repair shop to ask them to show you the problem with the subframe. Always do so before allowing a shop to do any work, especially if you have no definitive symptom. And, tell them you want to see the old parts whenever any shop does work for you.

Generally, all four bushings are replaced rather then just two since the subframe is dropped and they all have the same number of miles on them. The most difficult part of replacing subframe bushings is the removal. And if if the bushing is frozen or the proper tool isn't used the subframe can be damaged. I would think that if there is rust damage it would be in the area of the bushings but never know.

Best to always have work done at a well recommended independent shop that works on BMWs on a daily basis. Not unusual that someone here will be located in your area and can recommend a shop. Even if one knows a BMW inside and out it is a best to get a second PPI opinion at a shop that is familiar with X5s.

[X5only]

Originally Posted by andrewwynn

I'm a little confused; the shop after replacing sub-frame bushings said the actual sub-frame was compromised? it's conceivable they discovered the likes of a bad weld while replacing the bushings, etc. I've never heard of such on an X5 but they are starting to get pretty old.

I think we're giving that shop undue the benefit of the doubt - already the OP was told the rear wiper froze - lie #1. Further, an honest shop would inform the customer before completion of the job of their new findings/discoveries - the subframe rust, bad welding, etc - and give the customer the opportunity to see those findings, in case requested, and approve the repair. Instead, the shop assembled back everything and then informs the customer via invoice or at vehicle pickup that the subframe itself needs replacement. Right there the bushings would have to be replaced yet again. Crookedness #2. Need I go further?

OP, you seem to have some doubts- yeah, trust yourself and don’t keep giving the benefit of the doubt to a clear-cut case of dishonesty.

[jpilk99]

Thanks again, everyone. Lesson(s) learned.

To be clear, they did alert me before any work was done and I approved them replacing the lower control arms and bushings. My mother Raved about this shop and I went on faith that they ...’wouldn’t shaft my mother’. I was surprised when they said the LCAs and Bushings should be replaced but I trusted them; again based on my moms experience. When I got it back and accumulated the list of things they were wrong about and then the *%#! muffler hanger left just hanging... OFF THE BUSHING THEY JUST REPLACED ... that’s when I began to feel like some fraud had taken place and wanted input on the subframe.

Still not sure what I’m going to do. For sure, will never return there for any service. Thinking of calling the person my mom raves about to share my experience and see what he says. Also thinking of floating the absolute fact that I will NEVER refer anyone there and will absolutely share my negative experience on any of the social forums where people ask for input on repair shops. And finally may consider a call to the Better Business Bureau.

Thanks all.

[andrewwynn]

LCA/bushings sounded totally legit very common but worn out subframe would be very uncommon though as upallnight mentioned he's seen it in a different car so prudent would be "show me what you mean" so you can determine if it's factual.

If, when they found a problem mid bushings replacement, THAT would be the proper time to stop and say we should replace the subframe not just the bushings.

To make sure we are on the same page, they didn't replace subframe just two bushings and lower control arms correct?

[jpilk99]

They replaced the two rear subframe bushings. In their “list of recommendations” they said I needed a new subframe.

Re the lower control arms, I also recently bought a 2001 325CI and when I jacked up the front, the play in the wheels was extremely noticeable. I could see the play in the rubber components. I replaced them and it’s great now. When I jacked up and checked all four wheels on the X5 I was pleasantly relieved to find virtually no play whatsoever on any. When I brought it to the repair shop I typically go to, that does State Inspection stickers (the other shop does not), he jacked up all four and did even more testing and found no issue(s).

[jcp240z]

What I'd be concerned is that there are 4 subframe bushings. Typically if one is replaced they all are replaced. Both, because of they wear at the same rate and because of ride quality. Did they replace one side or both rear or both front subframe bushings? I'm speaking of the front or rear bushings for the rear subframe If you go back and look at the pictures wpoll posted you can see the 4 large round bushings, one in each corner.

[jpilk99]

They replaced only the 2 rear subframe bushings.

[X53Jay4.8is]

So the only thing that really should of happened here would be that the shop should have contacted the owner and made them aware of the supposed rusted subframe before any work was done. Then at that point the failed subframe bushings could have bee brought up and make a recommendation to replace all four even though two have completely deteriorated since the subframe would be out to replace the bushings. Anyway its highly unlikely that the subframe is rotted through.