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  #1  
Old 03-27-2020, 04:48 PM
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Another X5 3.0d starting issue thread ..

E53 2003 3.0d M57 - 130K

Foxwell NT530 scanner

I've been a lurker for many years, so first of all, thanks to the many contributors to the many 3.0d E53 non-starting threads - it appears I am not alone !

Issue - Random 'no start', mostly from hot - but also have had no start from cold as well.

Engine cranks fast but will sometimes not start. A quick quirt of Brake Cleaner or Start Spray (1 seconds worth) and she springs into life every time.

If on a long crank when trying to start, 'TRANS FAILSAFE' may come up after 10+ seconds of cranking - but after spray and a start, it goes away again and drives perfectly fine - no issues with the Auto gearbox.

Runs well and purrs nicely once started, even when cold.

Injectors : I replaced 4 of the injectors following a leak down test - Now all 6 leak a small amount, it takes about a minute for the fuel to even get to the collection bottle during idle - so I'm pretty sure the injectors are now good and start pressure is good - see below.

Camshaft Sensor : Sometimes shows this code 1E25 but may be as a result of the non start ?. Replaced as cheap and easy fix but no difference to random no starts, put the original one back.

Engine Bay Fuel Filter : Replaced with new Mann Filter, fully purged and could see all the air being purged through the clear fuel lines when originally changed.

Underbody Fuel Pump : Changed about 40-50K ago, can clearly hear it and low pressure fuel reading 4 psi on reader (which I believe is good). I can activate it fine using the scanner.

High Pressure Fuel Pump : Reading is ~296 psi when cranking and same when idling. Pressure rises and falls back to ~300 psi as engine is rev'd - (you can graph it on the foxwell), so both pump and regulator appear good ?

Fuel Pump Relay : Tested fine, but swapped relay with Horn relay for good measure. Can activate via scanner without issue and can hear pump ok.

High presure Fuel pressure Sensor on Rail : Checked connection, reading appear to be OK (~300 psi on idle).

Fuel Tank : Checked power to the lines with clamp meter (~4A each) and can hear the pumps, but have not fully tested these. Same symptoms whether full or half tank.

Battery : New Bosch S5. Cranking voltage above 12v

Alternator : Charging fine ~ 14.4v

Glow Plugs : All broken/open - but I believe these a) have no impact on a hot start anyway and b) temps never get below 0 degrees. Mostly starts fine first crank even when 0 degrees - so pretty sure Glow Plugs are not the issue here even if they are all broken/open ?

EGR and Intake Manifold cleaned (yuk!) when taken off to do Injectors. Boost sensor cleaned and correctly re-installed.

Things not checked
------------------

MAF Sensor - Never cleaned
Crankshaft Sensor - probably should have replaced when the Intake Manifold was removed ..

The TRANS FAILSAFE code is the issue that is concerning me - would a transmission issue stop the car from starting ?

Cooling off the engine appears to fix the car if left - ie I can leave the bonnet up for 5 minutes and then she'll start ok.

Thanks for any help - this is a really frustrating issue as she'll be fine for days and then starts playing up again ..
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Old 03-27-2020, 05:48 PM
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Something doesn't match up. When you are talking about fuel pressures do you mean bar instead of psi? In bars those figures would look quite normal. Still if you can ALWAYS start the vehicle when the problem occurs with help of brake cleaner or easy start and the engine behaves normally after starting, it has to be a pure low rail pressure problem while starting. Have you checked rail pressure while cranking when the problem occurs? What does the rail pressure show when just ignition on?

1E25 code for unknown crank/cam relation is suspicious and could cause starting problems but it would still not start no matter how much you spray brake cleaner to aid burning.
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Old 03-27-2020, 09:32 PM
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+1 to what Clavurion said - those pressures are WAY off if they really are psi...

Also, although I agree that the glow plugs are probably not at play in your fail to start scenario, they DO way more that just assist cold starts - they are part of the full emissions control system and are turned on by the DDE at other times.
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Old 03-27-2020, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wpoll View Post
Also, although I agree that the glow plugs are probably not at play in your fail to start scenario, they DO way more that just assist cold starts - they are part of the full emissions control system and are turned on by the DDE at other times.
Like you know after glow is to make the running smoother. Glow plugs have nothing(minor) to do with this problem unless sub -20 C.
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Old 03-27-2020, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clavurion View Post
Like you know after glow is to make the running smoother. Glow plugs have nothing(minor) to do with this problem unless sub -20 C.
Yep, as I stated - not involved here.

FWIW, this is what I've read is the glow plug role - on LCI cars anyway.

The glow plugs are activated under several conditions and only one of them includes a visual notification.

A short pre-heating cycle (2-8 seconds) is used any time the engine is started with the coolant below 30DegC. This is a silent cycle - no message...

The glow-plugs are activated if the engine coolant temps fall below 75DegC while running. No message....

A long pre-heat cycle (10-20 seconds) is run at start up start-up when coolant temps below 0DegC. - coolant temps, not ambient - and this cycle is indicated by the "PRE HEATING" message on the dash.

The pre-LCI maybe different. I know the glow plug controller is different, being a simple relay and not a controller as in the LCI cars.

Anyway, this isn't helping the OP.
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Old 03-27-2020, 10:03 PM
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Not helping in the case but regarding glow system here it's all found.

Pre facelift M57 DDE4

Facelift M57N DDE5/6
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Old 03-28-2020, 03:40 AM
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I'm thinking the trans failsafe may pop up after a long crank as the battery voltage falls too low for the trans. I think you can discount this as a casue, just a result of the long crank. And yes, I know the battery is new - but 10 seconds is a LONG crank on an I6 3.0l diesel....

HP fuel rail presssure regulator not operating sometimes? It's on the back of the HPFP. I've seen these go bad on Ford Rangers.

Check out this..

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...l-unit/BjWWOO3

and this...

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...l-unit/BjiHr8v
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Old 03-28-2020, 04:56 AM
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Many thanks for the replies clavurion and wpoll.



My mistake on the pressure reading - the reader doesn't actually show a unit just a number so I assumed it was psi lol, 300 bar, wow that's some pressure.


Let me get the pre-start pressure and cranking pressures.


I read somewhere that the actual 'start' pressure is 250 and anything above this should be good ?


I'm also going to study those TIS links and may replace the HPFP sensor - thanks again guys.
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Old 03-28-2020, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbjtech View Post
My mistake on the pressure reading - the reader doesn't actually show a unit just a number so I assumed it was psi lol, 300 bar, wow that's some pressure.

Let me get the pre-start pressure and cranking pressures.

I read somewhere that the actual 'start' pressure is 250 and anything above this should be good ?

I'm also going to study those TIS links and may replace the HPFP sensor - thanks again guys.
The point of checking rail pressure with just ignition on i to chech if rail pressure sensor is showing reliable figures. With pumps activated and on normal 4 bar supply pressure the rail pressure is usually 0 but anyways should be below 10 bar.

Rail pressure on start has to raise above 200 bar. Below that injectors can't open. On idle rail pressure is usually a bit over 300 bar. Max full throttle demand for rail pressure is 1350 bar (unless mapped a bit higher - 1500 bar is the max for rail pressure sensor chart).
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Old 03-28-2020, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wpoll View Post
I'm thinking the trans failsafe may pop up after a long crank as the battery voltage falls too low for the trans. I think you can discount this as a casue, just a result of the long crank. And yes, I know the battery is new - but 10 seconds is a LONG crank on an I6 3.0l diesel....

HP fuel rail presssure regulator not operating sometimes? It's on the back of the HPFP. I've seen these go bad on Ford Rangers.

Check out this..

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...l-unit/BjWWOO3
I agree with the low voltage most likely causing that trans failsafe and nothing to do with the actual problem.

That rail pressure regulator itself fails very rarely but that o-ring on the regulator is quite typical failure and is a very likely cause of low starting rail pressure if injector leak off is normal. Those seals for regulator can be bought separately.

Bosch:
* F 00V D38 011
* F 00V D38 009
* F 00R 0P1 466
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