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  #11  
Old 04-22-2020, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franccesco30 View Post
Thanks all for your inputs/comments.

The vibration issue started about a year ago. And it only happens when I hard brake at a high speed usually around 60-80 mph. It shakes violently, not your usual steering wheel vibration.

I don't think it's a wheel or tire issue related, I currently run my stagger set "20" and have swapped to my Winter Set up to see, but the issue persists even with a different set of wheels.

The axle that was replaced was not BMW original, I can't remember if the shaking was there before. It was replaced by a well know shop specialized in German Cars here in Springfield VA (German Auto Group). That's where I usually take it for things that I can't repair and to get an alignment.

They have offered to perform a complete complimentary 25 point inspection and will to let me know any recommendations needed for the X5. Hopefully they can determine the issue and will tackle it from there.

Will keep you post it.
The bushings in the thrust arm are shot. Never did like the BMW oil filled bushing with an open space deign. Even less with cheap aftermarket thrust arms. I went with Polyurethane bushing and never had any problem afterward.

I used these in my X when I owned it. I see that they are out of stock at Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Front-Strut-R.../dp/B00TALTOES
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Last edited by upallnight; 04-22-2020 at 02:45 PM.
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  #12  
Old 04-22-2020, 02:56 PM
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Thanks again for your feedback.

The thrust arms were the first part of the puzzle, I think I replaced those about 2 years ago. I usually order parts from deutschepartsusa which are decent "Fake" German Parts as some people say. The Bushings from the thrust arms seem fine, they are fairly new and have no play or cracks. So I now wonder whether they have failed with no clear signs!
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  #13  
Old 04-22-2020, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upallnight View Post
The bushings in the thrust arm are shot. Never did like the BMW oil filled bushing with an open space deign. Even less with cheap aftermarket thrust arms. I went with Polyurethane bushing and never had any problem afterward.

I used these in my X when I owned it. I see that they are out of stock at Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Front-Strut-R.../dp/B00TALTOES
Looks like I found the same type on Ebay. https://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-X5-E-53...kAAOSwcv9elgUE

I'll wait for the 25 point inspection diagnosis and see what comes up there. Otherwise I can try these as a last resource, after that I'm done. I'll have to let it go, can't deal with this issue anymore.
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  #14  
Old 04-22-2020, 03:11 PM
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Bolts and nuts securing the thrust arm bushings to the sub frame must be tighten with the car on the ground and the weight of the car on the suspension. Tightening the bolts and nuts with the suspension unloaded will guarantee failure of the bushing in a short while.

I usually drop the car on ramps and crawl underneath the car to do the final tightening.
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  #15  
Old 04-22-2020, 03:36 PM
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Check out this video. Pay attention to how he check the thrust arm for failure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hytMx-UIeT0
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  #16  
Old 04-22-2020, 06:00 PM
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I've had thrust arm failure without the shake you can tell if the thrust arm bushing is shut by watching the wheel when going 5 mph and hitting the brake. The wheel will move like 1/2" when brakes are applied.

Usually the shakes like crazy will happen about 45-60mph if the rear control arms (front axle) are shot.

When the control arms are the culprit you can usually reproduce the shimmy when you steer through center gently such as a soft lane change but you can do a gentle a curve in your lane at highway speeds.

Also: usually when control arms it's often the case they shake on gentle not firm braking.

See if you can get it to shake with gentle braking close to 40 mph or gentle back and forth steering at 70 mph.

You said heavy braking but I'm wondering how your braking sense is calibrated. "heavy braking" means a few seconds of such you will be going zero. Moderate braking a few seconds you go from 70 to 50.

I have a bad shake if I use moderate braking at speed that is probably one of the 8 or so ball joints but disappears on heavy braking.

I bought some control arms to fix the shake and then wife's X5 developed the obvious control arm shimmy so I put them on her car instead. Since mine never got worse and only happens occasionally under certain conditions I'm not confident my wobble is in the control arm.

The "gotcha joint" that nobody considers at fault is the top of the shock tower. ANY of the 8 or so ball joints/bushing that hold the front wheel can cause a shimmy when braking.

The wheel wobbles like a bad shopping cart wheel causes the shake you feel in the steering wheel.

You can possibly have a helper video each wheel with slow motion video while reproducing the shake to determine if it's one side or the other.

You can use a vibration app to determine the shake frequency to determine if it's a once per wheel revolution shake or slower / faster.

E g same frequency at different speeds it's not in the braking or drive train but a harmonic frequency of suspension components.

NEW does not equal fixed. Many many times I've replaced a part and the problem didn't go away. You have to out on a fresh set of eyes and pretend you didn't replace anything. Find the problem without the "lens" of what was replaced. From your description it's almost entirely certain your shake is from a part that was already replaced.

The last suggestion to look into the possibility of a damaged wheel bearing. If a bearing gets damaged on the non load bearing race you will not notice the classic drone or UFO wub wub wub of a bad bearing but it will be able to wobble so it can shake under braking but no other time.

Best way I know to confirm a bad wheel bearing is put on a tire that swaps which race is under load. I'll explain:

There is virtually zero percent chance the center of the wheel is lined up with the center of the bearing. This means the center of lift from the wheel will be either more inboard or outboard of the center of load on the bearing.

I noticed by chance my spare wheel, the center of lift is more inboard and puts the lifting force on my inner race of the bearing and my normal 255s puts the load on the outer race of the bearing. I did not know I had a failed bearing until I swapped on a pair of 245s one day and immediately had a bad berating drone.

Bearings do not "wear out" they can last a million miles if you don't hit potholes. They get Instantly damaged hitting a pothole or curb strike. If the damage is on the opposite race that normally holds the car up you might not know for years until the non load race finally gets enough propagated damage that it starts to drone or you get a shake during hard turns or braking.

Unfortunately you can rarely find loose bearing or ball joints by hand manipulation. The normal static force on a front wheel is 1200# so you can't apply forces hard enough for the car to care.
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  #17  
Old 04-22-2020, 06:17 PM
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Thanks for the link.

In this case of the video the bushings are completely trashed.

I just did the same test and there is hardly any play, see photo of mine.

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  #18  
Old 04-22-2020, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franccesco30 View Post
Thanks all for your inputs/comments.

The vibration issue started about a year ago. And it only happens when I hard brake at a high speed usually around 60-80 mph. It shakes violently, not your usual steering wheel vibration.
I had this experience with my 3.0. I could relieve it entirely by cycling the brakes through abrupt 60mph-10mph hard braking to clear the excess material from the discs. Kinda like bedding in new pads. It'd be good for about 6 months and then it'd return.

Also- have you checked wheel balance?
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Last edited by PropellerHead; 04-22-2020 at 06:41 PM.
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  #19  
Old 04-22-2020, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upallnight View Post
Bolts and nuts securing the thrust arm bushings to the sub frame must be tighten with the car on the ground and the weight of the car on the suspension. Tightening the bolts and nuts with the suspension unloaded will guarantee failure of the bushing in a short while.

I usually drop the car on ramps and crawl underneath the car to do the final tightening.
While this is true with most bushes, it should not be the required with the PSB bushes you say you used. They state that the steel inner can rotate within the poly bush, so there is no need to tighten them with the suspension loaded...
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  #20  
Old 04-22-2020, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by wpoll View Post
While this is true with most bushes, it should not be the required with the PSB bushes you say you used. They state that the steel inner can rotate within the poly bush, so there is no need to tighten them with the suspension loaded...
You are correct the PSB can be tighten with the x still off the ground.
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