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  #1  
Old 10-31-2020, 06:28 AM
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Need input from Timesert gurus

I am taking off my cylinder head tomorrow to figure out why I'm leaking coolant like crazy after changing the head gasket. I believe my issue has something to do with my Timesert installation. I struggled getting the head bolts torqued properly. When I removed the head bolts I noticed they varied in the torque effort to remove them. Anyone have any insights? I will get a look at the mating surfaces tomorrow to see if something else caused the coolant leaking problem. What should I look for and measure? Anyone been there before? Should I use new Standard Timeserts? I didn't use any Locktite when installing the inserts. I thought about re-torqueing each bolt using a spacer to mimick the thickness of the head to see if I can identify which bolts are especially suspect. Is there an oversized Timesert in the event I need to drill/tap/install abigger one?
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Old 10-31-2020, 02:07 PM
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OK. I took the head off and find 5-6 Time serts have pulled out.
I'm guessing I drilled poorly.
Now what? Is it worth trying again if there is such a thing as an oversized Timesert or call it a day and buy a pickup?
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Old 10-31-2020, 02:46 PM
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How did you install the time-serts? Did you use kit 1090 which included the jig for the BMW M54 engine? or did you just get the drill bits and do it without the jig? Most of the clamping force comes from the expansion of the time-sert insert as the final step of the installation process. If you didn't use the exact drill bit required (31/64's - an odd size) that might be your problem. The drop of red loctite provides only secondary holding support.

You can fix this by installing M10x1.5 x24.5mm BIG-Serts .. I have kit 1090BS (Big-sert) I can rent you. PM me if interested.
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Old 10-31-2020, 03:04 PM
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I ordered the Timesert kit $130 or so, without the drill bushing plate and used the Timesert instructions. The rear outward two headbolt holes are compromised by the plastic covers so I used a 90 degree drill there.
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  #5  
Old 10-31-2020, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahlem View Post
I ordered the Timesert kit $130 or so, without the drill bushing plate and used the Timesert instructions. The rear outward two headbolt holes are compromised by the plastic covers so I used a 90 degree drill there.
Well if you used the Time-sert tools - drill, tap, and driver - & followed their instructions, it should have worked.

Big-serts are still your answer....
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Old 10-31-2020, 06:08 PM
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Here's an interesting video with proof testing on the various options, including the BigSert.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpDduCVUy6w

Brief summary is that the BigSerts were the best = the only ones that broke the bolt before pulling out the insert. His testing used M8-1.25 bolts into 6061 Aluminum (he said no heat treating, but that seems very odd).

Very cool thing is that you can visually see the actual failures occuring (TS pulling out, etc.).

TimeSert literature on the BS advertises it to be used after a Helicoil fails. I wondered why they did not say after a regular TimeSert fails, and now figure it must be only because they don't want to admit such a thing ever happens.

So using a BS to repair a failed TS seems like it should work. Further, I don't see why you would not want to use a BS as the first attempt, especially when overkill is desired.

As I see it, the reason you'd want a TS for an M54 block repair in the first place is that the block material will have been weakened by the assumed overheating condition. So of course you'd want to overkill the repair. I used TS with no problems on my M54, but now knowing about the BS, I'd go for that. The BS cost about $5 per insert, vs. $2 for the TS.

Based on that video, if I had to guess, I'd say that your TS inserts just pulled straight up and out, bringing all 24mm of M12-1.5 block threads with them. The video shows that for the TS - the insert does not unscrew, it just pulls up when it fails. Weakened block material may have helped this happen.

I posted a couple of times way back when @ahlem was first starting this project, on using the TimeSerts. I mentioned I had seen a guy with some youtube videos, with a product he had developed, selling it on eBay. Even bigger oversized inserts, also with coarser threads (no longer same pitch as the bolt). Looked impressive, but I have not checked again.

From what I can see, the BS inserts have the same pitch (as the TS and as the bolt), but are bigger in diameter and have a different locking mechanism vs. the regular TS. Is that right, @Effduration?
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Old 10-31-2020, 06:30 PM
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Only 4 failed. Two came out with a screw extractor and two want to be difficult. I’m not drilling until I get the specs on the Big Serts.
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Old 10-31-2020, 07:15 PM
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How about a used engine?
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Old 11-01-2020, 06:02 AM
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A used M54 might end up having the same issues. And besides, then I wouldn’t learn anything new and get to buy cool tools. Mrs. “Not car guy” wouldn’t have to stress on it either.
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Old 11-01-2020, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahlem View Post
Only 4 failed. Two came out with a screw extractor and two want to be difficult. I’m not drilling until I get the specs on the Big Serts.
I believe the Engineering data is on the Time-serts web site.
++ TIME-SERT Enginerring Data BIG-SERT ++

As for big-serts vs time-serts. I only use/ recommend Big-serts if when time-serts or some other insert failed.

We hear very few reports of time-serts failing when the car has not overheated after installation. I have never seen a properly installed time-sert fail from the correct head bolt tightening procedure, and I have installed 8 or 9 heads, each with 14 time-serted holes..

Big-serts, in addition to being larger, DO appear to have a slightly different anchoring
system. Like a time-sert, the big-sert has several bottom threads which are not fully formed, When installed, these now-fully-formed bottom threads expand the insert, locking it in place, like a time-sert. However, in addition the Big-sert has a pin that is pushed out during installation into the larger threaded hole, that also locks it in place and prevents the big-sert from being unthreaded.

As for always using Big-serts. You could do this, but I wouldn't:
- A regular time-sert almost always works if installed properly.
- I would rather have a smaller hole than a larger hole in this application with with coolant jackets and oil passages nearby
- Big-serts are 2x the price of time-serts (not a big deal)
- If a Big-sert fails, you don't have an easy-to-install next size larger solution.

Last edited by Effduration; 11-01-2020 at 09:39 AM.
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