Water Pump Carnage

[Bdc101]

How many impeller fragments were you able to find? You think you got em all?

[Attacking Mid]

It seems to be in 3 large pieces, and it appears that anything missing would have to be small debris. I tried to back flush it with a garden hose as best I could, but I didn't see anything coming out. I also back flushed the heater core and forward flushed the radiator. I'm guessing the radiator passages are the smallest. Perhaps I need to remove it and turn it upside down and back flush it? I'm not sure if that's really necessary, but couldn't hurt to try.

I may have removed most of the debris on my first attempt to solve the problem. My upper hose failed (now I know it may have been exacerbated by a failing WP), so I replaced the hose and at the same time replaced the thermostat due to some inconsistent cabin heating (again - probably due to the failing WP). The WP itself was not originally a concern as it was only about 45K miles old. Since I didn't suspect anything, I didn't bother inspecting the old coolant for impeller debris.

I've used plastic impeller WP's for many years/miles on other BMW's with no problem. I wonder if Saleri has upgraded the plastic since my last purchase? I bought it from FCPEuro, so at least I get a "free" replacement.

Anecdotal thought... When I installed that water pump about 4 years ago, I was out of Genuine BMW coolant. The FLAPS had Pentosin Blue coolant that was supposedly a direct replacement. I wonder if that had any effect on the life of the impeller?

AM.

[bmw540san]

I can add few (hopefully) helping tidbits:

Blue Pentosin is fine and I've used it for years as I bought bunch of it at local parts store on clearance. Same spec as BMW and obviously, use it with distilled water.

I've used Genuine BMW WP's with composite impellers for years and will continue to use them. Plastic is the wrong term to use as there is a big difference between 2 materials.
Yes, there were issues with early WP's in the early 90's but ever since then BMW and other manufacturers have corrected problem by using stronger composite material.

Many people swear by metal impellers WP's but many of the brands are poorly made and heavier / unbalanced impellers can also cause issues.

It's your car but I think there is underlaying problem to your failure that it's not necesarilly caused strictly because of composite impellers WP.

P.S.

By some coincidence I've ordered Genuine BMW WP to replace the original with 130K miles as I think I've heard some bearing noise the other day.
I can almost bet that when I pull the pump, there will be no issues with composite impellers other than probably worn bearing.

[Attacking Mid]

Originally Posted by bmw540san

It's your car but I think there is underlaying problem to your failure that it's not necesarilly caused strictly because of composite impellers WP.

I can't imagine what it would be. This is the first cooling system issue since I bought it about 4 years ago. At that time, I did a basic cooling system overhaul for peace of mind which included a new ET, WP, Thermostat, etc. No instances of coolant loss or anything else cooling system related over the past 4 yrs. and 45K miles... until now.

Interestingly, my impeller failure is virtually identical to the OP's failure. Also, it would seem we may have purchased our WP's from FCP at approximately the same time, though his only made it 18K miles as of July 2021. He probably bought the pump sometime in 2019? I bought mine in January of 2019. Perhaps it's possible there were some defective impellers during that time? I just don't know. Searching BMW forums and generally online, I'm not finding many reports of failures like this. Weird.

I already ordered the same Saleri pump from FCP, so I'll send the old one back under their warranty. There just haven't been enough reports of similar failures for me to suspect this is a design problem rather than a statistical outlier failure. If it fails again, THEN I'll suspect a design problem.

AM.

[bmw540san]

Originally Posted by Attacking Mid

I can't imagine what it would be. This is the first cooling system issue since I bought it about 4 years ago. At that time, I did a basic cooling system overhaul for peace of mind which included a new ET, WP, Thermostat, etc. No instances of coolant loss or anything else cooling system related over the past 4 yrs. and 45K miles... until now.

Interestingly, my impeller failure is virtually identical to the OP's failure. Also, it would seem we may have purchased our WP's from FCP at approximately the same time, though his only made it 18K miles as of July 2021. He probably bought the pump sometime in 2019? I bought mine in January of 2019. Perhaps it's possible there were some defective impellers during that time? I just don't know. Searching BMW forums and generally online, I'm not finding many reports of failures like this. Weird.

I already ordered the same Saleri pump from FCP, so I'll send the old one back under their warranty. There just haven't been enough reports of similar failures for me to suspect this is a design problem rather than a statistical outlier failure. If it fails again, THEN I'll suspect a design problem.

AM.

I see. Just to clarify:
Yor failed WP is OEM Saleri and not BMW Genuine?
If so, than it might be the actual composite quality issue.
I'm not saying BMW Genuine WP is something special but at least I don't have to worry about potential OEM difference etc...
Also, as far as Saleri goes, I don't think it's the same as Genuine BMW as far shaved BMW log etc...
Anyway, I can take close up pictures of my WP when it arrives in few days if you want to compare it to Saleri.

[Attacking Mid]

Thanks! I probably won't have my new Saleri for about a week (CT to CO shipping), but I'd be curious to compare visually to the genuine BMW pump. So yes, mine was a Salari OE (as FCP defines), not a BMW genuine pump. You might be right that it's not truly the same as the genuine pump. I'll look over my old pump carefully in the meantime.

AM.

[bmw540san]

Originally Posted by Attacking Mid

Thanks! I probably won't have my new Saleri for about a week (CT to CO shipping), but I'd be curious to compare visually to the genuine BMW pump. So yes, mine was a Salari OE (as FCP defines), not a BMW genuine pump. You might be right that it's not truly the same as the genuine pump. I'll look over my old pump carefully in the meantime.

AM.

No problem.
I'll PM you when I get it and take pics and then I'll post it here too as it might be beneficial for others later on.
Also, the last I6 BMW Genuine WP I got was remanufactured in Austria IIRC.
I believe Saleri is actually brand new which weirdly enough, I almost trust better in correct remanufacturing process vs. brand new.
Anyway, it's been easily 6-7 years and things might've changed but it will interesting to compare them.
Plus, I'll compare it to the original as well. IIRC, the date stamp code should be visible on impellers to verify if it's original.

[Attacking Mid]

I'm beginning to question if I possibly received a counterfeit "Saleri" pump - and probably so did the OP. Perhaps an unscrupulous FCP customer bought a cheap knockoff pump and submitted a return to FCP. It's easy to imagine that FCP wouldn't notice and would put the part back into inventory.

The OP never followed up to reveal if the new Saleri pump he got from FCP appeared to be genuine, but I'll be anxious to see what I get from them next week. The OP mentioned the obvious difference in hardness of the impeller materials between his failed impeller and the genuine Saleri he got from NAPA. I seem to have the same flexible impeller. On the back, the impeller is marked as being made of PA-GF 30 composite. A quick DDG image search reveals BMW and Saleri pump impellers being made of PPS-GF 40, which is a more costly and apparently stiffer composite. If the new pump I receive from FCP has the flexible impeller, it's going back. I won't install it.

AM.

[bmw540san]

Originally Posted by Attacking Mid

I'm beginning to question if I possibly received a counterfeit "Saleri" pump - and probably so did the OP. Perhaps an unscrupulous FCP customer bought a cheap knockoff pump and submitted a return to FCP. It's easy to imagine that FCP wouldn't notice and would put the part back into inventory.

The OP never followed up to reveal if the new Saleri pump he got from FCP appeared to be genuine, but I'll be anxious to see what I get from them next week. The OP mentioned the obvious difference in hardness of the impeller materials between his failed impeller and the genuine Saleri he got from NAPA. I seem to have the same flexible impeller. On the back, the impeller is marked as being made of PA-GF 30 composite. A quick DDG image search reveals BMW and Saleri pump impellers being made of PPS-GF 40, which is a more costly and apparently stiffer composite. If the new pump I receive from FCP has the flexible impeller, it's going back. I won't install it.




AM.

Reading this post I'm thinking that most likely Saleri has drop their quality notch down and it's "genuine" Saleri. If you receive a 2nd one that's identical, it'd be highly unlikely it's counterfit.
If this turns out to be the case, you can return it and pay the difference and get better quality WP from FCP.
I had similar problem with iginition coils few years back and they gladly accepted it back and sold me the different brand for price difference.
Or you can buy Genuine WP elsewhere as I did.
I got it here and they have 1 left at pretty good price:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00I10MHLQ...roduct_details
This is actual BMW dealer selling through Amazon.

[cn90]

Idk why you want to go back to Saleri...
Saleri was an attempt at reducing weight a few grams (in the wrong place)...

Anyway I posted long-term report on HEPU...

- Installed HEPU WP in 1998 528i in May 2006 @90K miles.

- I am now March 2023 @193K miles. Or 17 yrs and 103K miles later.

- Still good but I might replace it after it has accumulated 110K miles or so...