Home Forums Articles How To's FAQ Register
Go Back   Xoutpost.com > BMW SAV Forums > X5 (E53) Forum
Fluid Motor Union
User Name
Password
Member List Premier Membership Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Xoutpost server transfer and maintenance is occurring....
Xoutpost is currently undergoing a planned server migration.... stay tuned for new developments.... sincerely, the management


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-10-2021, 04:04 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Caroline County, MD
Posts: 225
lkv0315 is on a distinguished road
CAN Bus Interpretation

Good afternoon everyone,
Iím currently working on a long-running project of a performance dash for the E53, although Iíve reached an impasse. According to what I see on the wiring diagram, I am missing the CAN pins on my OBD port(which are on 6 and 14) and have the K-Line pins (7 and 8) yet the wiring diagram says the can wires are YlwBlk and YlwBrw which are the colors of the wires in pin 7 and 8.
My CAN bus interpreter for my raspberry pi cannot read any data from 7 and 8 (which could be up to the setup of my CAN bus tool) which makes me think I donít have CAN, yet BMW scanner 1.4 was giving me all kinds of messages about the CAN bus having been interrupted after I had hooked the interpreter up to it. This brings me to my questions.
1) Does the E53 (2005) have CAN bus?
2) Can it be interpreted in any way (I.e is it encrypted)?
3) What wires are 7 and 8 actually?
4) Is there a way for me to only connect to certain CAN busses (since I know all the different modules communicate using it, and I really only need the DME)?
Thanks in advance for any help!


Sent from my iPhone using Xoutpost.com
__________________
2005 X5 E53, 167k Miles: Kenwood DNX893S Head Unit, Mud Flaps (Rear Only) , Rim Shopping(WIP), Full Spectrum RGB Halos,
Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links

  #2  
Old 09-10-2021, 04:38 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Finland
Posts: 831
Clavurion is on a distinguished road
Are you sure about the wire colours on OBD2 port? Pins 7 and 8 should both be white/violet. Pin 7 is TXD2 diagnostic link to power train modules (engine and transmission) and pin 8 TXD to instrument cluster working as a gateway to K-bus modules. CAN high and low are those mentioned yellow/black and yellow/brown. That communication is only between engine ECU, transmission control unit, instrument cluster, ABS module and steering angle sensor.

__________________
E39 530dA -02 M-Sport Messing metallic
E53 X5 3.0dA -06 Sport Stratus grey
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-10-2021, 05:04 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: CA
Posts: 25
gpeterson is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkv0315 View Post
1) Does the E53 (2005) have CAN bus?
Yes, 2 of them (one for DME <-> AGS, one for DME <-> other modules), but not for diagnostics via ODB2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lkv0315 View Post
2) Can it be interpreted in any way (I.e is it encrypted)?
Yes, Google "e46 CAN bus project". Messages are similar (if not the same) for BMWs of that era.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lkv0315 View Post
3) What wires are 7 and 8 actually?
K-lines for diagnostics.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-10-2021, 06:17 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Caroline County, MD
Posts: 225
lkv0315 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clavurion View Post
Are you sure about the wire colours on OBD2 port? Pins 7 and 8 should both be white/violet. Pin 7 is TXD2 diagnostic link to power train modules (engine and transmission) and pin 8 TXD to instrument cluster working as a gateway to K-bus modules. CAN high and low are those mentioned yellow/black and yellow/brown. That communication is only between engine ECU, transmission control unit, instrument cluster, ABS module and steering angle sensor.
Heres the resources I have. I have a pinout from the internet and my OBDII pins

Attached Images
  
__________________
2005 X5 E53, 167k Miles: Kenwood DNX893S Head Unit, Mud Flaps (Rear Only) , Rim Shopping(WIP), Full Spectrum RGB Halos,
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-10-2021, 06:21 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: CA
Posts: 25
gpeterson is on a distinguished road
The generic OBD2 CAN pinout won't matter. That is a federal mandate for model year 2008 and newer. Even if your car was 2008 or newer the CAN pins on the OBD2 connector would not be directly tied to one of the CAN buses that the DME lives on - they would go to some gateway (body module, cluster, etc) and be filtered and/or altered by that gateway.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-10-2021, 06:30 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Caroline County, MD
Posts: 225
lkv0315 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpeterson View Post
The generic OBD2 CAN pinout won't matter. That is a federal mandate for model year 2008 and newer. Even if your car was 2008 or newer the CAN pins on the OBD2 connector would not be directly tied to one of the CAN buses that the DME lives on - they would go to some gateway (body module, cluster, etc) and be filtered and/or altered by that gateway.
So my best bet is to tap straight into the YellowBlk and YllwBrw wires on the DME module itself. And at that point, how likely am I to end up permanently damaging something, such as the EEPROM?
__________________
2005 X5 E53, 167k Miles: Kenwood DNX893S Head Unit, Mud Flaps (Rear Only) , Rim Shopping(WIP), Full Spectrum RGB Halos,
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-10-2021, 06:41 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: CA
Posts: 25
gpeterson is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkv0315 View Post
how likely am I to end up permanently damaging something, such as the EEPROM?
Little to none, CAN is designed to be robust. You could absolutely interrupt bus traffic and set all sorts of codes, cause trans failsafe message, etc. by improper termination, shorting the bus or flooding it with high-priority messages.

You should make sure whatever device you connect is not terminated (since the bus is already terminated at both ends) and follow general CAN rules regarding wiring.

I'm guessing whatever hardware you use will live inside the car, so I'd tap in at the cluster or somewhere else inside. I would also look up pinouts on WDS and not rely on wire colors alone. You will want to use the bus that connects a number of modules, not the one specifically used for DME to AGS communication.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-11-2021, 12:08 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Caroline County, MD
Posts: 225
lkv0315 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpeterson View Post
Little to none, CAN is designed to be robust. You could absolutely interrupt bus traffic and set all sorts of codes, cause trans failsafe message, etc. by improper termination, shorting the bus or flooding it with high-priority messages.



You should make sure whatever device you connect is not terminated (since the bus is already terminated at both ends) and follow general CAN rules regarding wiring.



I'm guessing whatever hardware you use will live inside the car, so I'd tap in at the cluster or somewhere else inside. I would also look up pinouts on WDS and not rely on wire colors alone. You will want to use the bus that connects a number of modules, not the one specifically used for DME to AGS communication.


So what exactly do you mean by terminated? Iím not sure how I would be able to connect into the canbus wires without creating a termination. This add on board has a CAN H and CAN L screw down terminal block which I was using inline wire taps to get a signal for (plastic things with a metal insert that poke a hole in the side of the wire to give connection to another wire)
The only way I can think of to ďavoid terminatingĒ would be to cut the can bus wires, and run two wires to each of the boards terminals, so the connection between the modules is not being intercepted by the add on board, but is instead required to go through it


Sent from my iPhone using Xoutpost.com
__________________
2005 X5 E53, 167k Miles: Kenwood DNX893S Head Unit, Mud Flaps (Rear Only) , Rim Shopping(WIP), Full Spectrum RGB Halos,
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-11-2021, 12:22 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Saskatchewan Canada
Posts: 1,300
80stech is on a distinguished road
Are you using a CAN bus module or chip or does the Raspberry Pie have built in CAN bus??
__________________
1988 325is (purchased new)
2004 X5 3.0 (new to me) 2005 X3 2.5 (new to wife)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-11-2021, 12:48 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Caroline County, MD
Posts: 225
lkv0315 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by 80stech View Post
Are you using a CAN bus module or chip or does the Raspberry Pie have built in CAN bus??


Iím using a CAN HAT called the waveshare RS485
It has a setup that is involved which I may have done incorrectly, but am unsure if thatís the direction you were going with the question.


Sent from my iPhone using Xoutpost.com
__________________
2005 X5 E53, 167k Miles: Kenwood DNX893S Head Unit, Mud Flaps (Rear Only) , Rim Shopping(WIP), Full Spectrum RGB Halos,
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:49 AM.
vBulletin, Copyright 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0
© 2017 Xoutpost.com. All rights reserved. Xoutpost.com is a private enthusiast site not associated with BMW AG.
The BMW name, marks, M stripe logo, and Roundel logo as well as X3, X5 and X6 designations used in the pages of this Web Site are the property of BMW AG.
This web site is not sponsored or affiliated in any way with BMW AG or any of its subsidiaries.