oil extraction pump; will the dipstick tube permit it

[Fifty150hs]

Originally Posted by workingonit

I have always used the same 5-6 quart drain pan; I wasn't used to draining more than it would hold, so I thought about extracting the extra 2-3 quarts from the topside before draining from below. Done that before at a friend's shop on a diesel pickup, but with a vacuum-powered extractor ($$$$). My cheap unit just doesn't have the power needed. I'm buying a bigger drainpan before the next oil change (and/or a Fumoto drain fitting). I'll save the electric extractor for master cylinders or power steering reservoir drainage.



This is my first-time ever oil change on the X5; I've had it 17 months, but it only had 400 miles since the previous owner had the oil changed, and I'd only driven it 900 miles. Not sure which synthetic he used, though he said it was 5W-30, but surely it was good enough for that short time. I put in Castrol Euro 5W-40, with LL-01 specs. Next oil change will be next year.

About the protective plate: I tried using the tools I mentioned, and with a box end on the nut, but I didn't have the room to move (the X5 is only lifted six inches in front, on short ramps), nor the strength to muscle them loose (one arm is useless). I've never had the plate off, but my friend, the previous owner, had it off when he was rebuilding it, but he has a strong/new 1/2" impact that is obviously stronger than my 30-year-old electric/corded impact I bought at some tool sale. I'll have to improve my tool stock, because if he put the plate back on without proper torque values, then I might need a much stronger impact...example: I had my first flat a few months ago, and had to use a 4-ft breaker bar to loosen the lug bolts...I'm sure the previous owner used his big honking impact on it as well!

That plate is not a protective plate, it is a stiffening plate. The bolts are very tight because of the required clamping force it needs to keep it from allowing the subframe from flexing. The torque on those, IIRC, is 45 ft/lbs plus 90 degrees. Someone on here before figured out what the clamping force was and it is high. Also, the manual calls for those nuts and bolts to be replaced. Don't ask about that as it will start an entirely too long discussion about whether it is necessary or not. Buy 12.9 bolts and nuts like I did and you'll never need to change them again no matter how many times you take them off and put them back on. Belmetrics.com is the place to get those.

[workingonit]

Originally Posted by Fifty150hs

That plate is not a protective plate, it is a stiffening plate. The bolts are very tight because of the required clamping force it needs to keep it from allowing the subframe from flexing. The torque on those, IIRC, is 45 ft/lbs plus 90 degrees. Someone on here before figured out what the clamping force was and it is high. Also, the manual calls for those nuts and bolts to be replaced. Don't ask about that as it will start an entirely too long discussion about whether it is necessary or not. Buy 12.9 bolts and nuts like I did and you'll never need to change them again no matter how many times you take them off and put them back on. Belmetrics.com is the place to get those.

Thanks for the info. I can guarantee that those bolts have been tightened to 3-4 times the 45 ft-lbs (as were the lug bolts on the wheels I removed awhile back). I'm a long-time shadetree mechanic, but was a grad of a GM tech school, so I know when and where to use proper torque; obviously, my engineer friend skipped using his torque wrench, and instead used his whang-bang-super impact on those bolts!

If I need to remove the "stiffener plate", I will replace those over-tightened ones with new 12.9 grade replacements, properly torqued to specs. If BMW deems it a neccessary piece to maintain chassis rigidity, then I shall respect their judgement.

I may have to soak those bolts with PB blaster or WD-40 for a week in advance of removal, and use my best breaker bar (and another hand under the car with a box-end wrench) to actually free the bolts, but is there a problem re-assembling it, as it might be under stress?

As the oil has just been changed, and all the suspension components nearby (and the tranny and driveline parts refreshed in the last 3 years/2000 miles), I'll probably not have to do anything there for a year, so I'll file this info in my growing X5 compendium.

[Fifty150hs]

Originally Posted by workingonit

Thanks for the info. I can guarantee that those bolts have been tightened to 3-4 times the 45 ft-lbs (as were the lug bolts on the wheels I removed awhile back). I'm a long-time shadetree mechanic, but was a grad of a GM tech school, so I know when and where to use proper torque; obviously, my engineer friend skipped using his torque wrench, and instead used his whang-bang-super impact on those bolts!

If I need to remove the "stiffener plate", I will replace those over-tightened ones with new 12.9 grade replacements, properly torqued to specs. If BMW deems it a neccessary piece to maintain chassis rigidity, then I shall respect their judgement.

I may have to soak those bolts with PB blaster or WD-40 for a week in advance of removal, and use my best breaker bar (and another hand under the car with a box-end wrench) to actually free the bolts, but is there a problem re-assembling it, as it might be under stress?

As the oil has just been changed, and all the suspension components nearby (and the tranny and driveline parts refreshed in the last 3 years/2000 miles), I'll probably not have to do anything there for a year, so I'll file this info in my growing X5 compendium.

Putting the plate back on is pretty easy, even by yourself if you have a jack. I just set it on there and use it as an extra hand holding it against the subframe. It's definitely not under tension.

[nick325xit 5spd]

Just for what it's worth, the old plug in impacts are unlikely to produce even close to the amount of torque that the modern battery impacts produce. In fact, I wouldn't be all that surprised if its output is a lot closer to my 1/4" impact than my 1/2" impact.

[Fifty150hs]

Originally Posted by nick325xit 5spd

Just for what it's worth, the old plug in impacts are unlikely to produce even close to the amount of torque that the modern battery impacts produce. In fact, I wouldn't be all that surprised if its output is a lot closer to my 1/4" impact than my 1/2" impact.

+1 on that. I have an old Dewalt 1/2" 18 volt battery impact and my newer Makita 1/4" will out drive the Dewalt.

[Clavurion]

Also a heavier socket will give more force per impact.

[dkl]

FYI - Warning with using a Fumoto drain fitting. I had tried using a Fumoto drain fitting on my 3.0i many moons ago and failed miserably. The 3.0 engine requires an adapter to be used with the Fumoto valve. The adapter appeared to be made out of some type of soft brass material as the threads portion of it just sheared right off during my hand tightening process. Or perhaps I got a bad one? I was lucky that I was able to unthread the the sheared portion back out using a flat head screwdriver. After that fiasco, I had decide to use a topside extractor and it's been working well for me for the past 14 years or so over 3 different cars that I maintain. My extractor pulls out all 8.5 quarts in about 45 minutes if the oil is stone cold. The time doesn't bother me because I just let it do it's job in the garage while I do something else...like changing out the filter, sucking out and replenish the power steering reservoir, having a sip of my favorite beverage, etc...

[workingonit]

Originally Posted by dkl

FYI - Warning with using a Fumoto drain fitting. I had tried using a Fumoto drain fitting on my 3.0i many moons ago and failed miserably. The 3.0 engine requires an adapter to be used with the Fumoto valve. The adapter appeared to be made out of some type of soft brass material as the threads portion of it just sheared right off during my hand tightening process. Or perhaps I got a bad one? I was lucky that I was able to unthread the the sheared portion back out using a flat head screwdriver.

I had thought that the necessary 1/2" adapter (that needs to be used, to access the Fumoto drain plug on my 3.0 engine) might be a possible problem (adding another point for failure or leakage).

Your experience made me cross the Fumoto off my shopping list, to be replaced with a spill-proof, oversized drain pan with spout (probably one of 3-4 gallon capacity), that I could also use for radiator or transmission drainage as well. I had used them often at a friend's shop, but I never actually needed one 'til now, with the 7.8L oil capacity of the 3.0 engine being too much for my 5-6 quart triangular drain pan (I can't tell you how many times I spilled oil from it, trying to move it from under a car!)

The 12v fluid extractor I bought just wasn't fast enough for the job, and a plastic drain pan will be much cheaper than a good vacuum extractor

[nick325xit 5spd]

Originally Posted by workingonit

I had thought that the necessary 1/2" adapter (that needs to be used, to access the Fumoto drain plug on my 3.0 engine) might be a possible problem (adding another point for failure or leakage).

Your experience made me cross the Fumoto off my shopping list, to be replaced with a spill-proof, oversized drain pan with spout (probably one of 3-4 gallon capacity), that I could also use for radiator or transmission drainage as well. I had used them often at a friend's shop, but I never actually needed one 'til now, with the 7.8L oil capacity of the 3.0 engine being too much for my 5-6 quart triangular drain pan (I can't tell you how many times I spilled oil from it, trying to move it from under a car!)

The 12v fluid extractor I bought just wasn't fast enough for the job, and a plastic drain pan will be much cheaper than a good vacuum extractor

I’m pretty sure the X5 is standard M54 6.5l oil capacity, btw. But yeah, a good drain pan makes a huge difference.

[oldskewel]

My 2001 Owner's manual, page 209, says 7.9 quarts capacity for oil and filter change on the 3.0i. 8.5 quarts on the 4.4i.

Not sure if that means the high point on the dipstick.

Elsewhere it says it is one liter (1.1 qt.) between the low and high marks on the dipstick.

Better to have a drain pan bigger than you need vs. smaller.