OK I did transmission fluid flush on my 02 4.4i

[JCL]

Originally Posted by mysweetx5

There are many discussions in the forum
about the words Lifetime Fluid. For me, I think this is too good to be true. Nothing could be Lifetime really, even bridges have to be rebuilt one day.
And I hate when people talking trash about New Fluid will shock the Transmission

Lifetime means the transmission lifetime, not your lifetime. And most bridges last longer than transmissions; I don't understand the bridge analogy, since we don't usually change the fluid in bridges.

I wouldn't say the new fluid shocks the transmission since transmissions don't really care about what fluid is in them, as long as it meets the spec. What the new fluid and all the detergents it contains does do is clean out all the build up in the transmission and flush it out. Since there is nowhere for the residue to go it tends to settle in the valve body, where it blocks small but vital control passages and orfices. Then, you can get shifting problems, caused not so much by the new fluid, as by the detergents in the new fluid.

If you change it frequently enough you will tend to avoid that particular problem (no guarantees, though). Then the real debate becomes whether your investment in frequent fluid changes has any effect on the time to failure of the transmission, and thus whether it was a good investment, or simply money down the drain. Changing the fluid only makes sense if not changing it contributes to failures.

What I hate is when people talk trash about tribology.

[MHKitchen]

Just a comment. I went through the dreaded tranny rebuild due to a cracked clutch housing several years ago. I developed a close relationship with the local authorized ZF tranny rebuilder as a result. My wife's '97 Jag XK8 uses the same tranny and was having some lurching issues. After consulting with a very experienced ZF mechanic, he confessed that these ZF trannies often exhibited more problems and potential slipping after fluid was changed. His recommendation was to just leave them alone and keep driving them and don't change fluid unless some serious problem comes up that requires disassembly. Her tranny problem turned out to be a faulty switch on the tranny Sport mode. No fluid change and now at 170K miles and running fine.

[mysweetx5]

OK, as promised, I am posting my experience flushing my tanny.
The car is X5 4.4i 2001 with 123,535 miles on it and this
service has never been done in the past.
Lifeguard5 Fluid is for 5-speed ZF transmission E53 and may be used on other years/model as well.

The tools you need:
- T27 Torx bit
- 8mm Hex drive (for the filler and drain plugs)
- 10mm socket
- Torque wrench (lower range from arounf 6lbft to 50lbft)
- Oil manual pump to put the fresh ATF into the pan (see one of the pictures)
- Rubbermaid small step stool.
- Oil catch pan (I use 10 quart version)
- Plenty of rags or kitty liter, trust me you’ll have plenty Pentosin on your garage floor
- I use brake cleaner spray to clean the pans and hands

The parts
-Trans filter
- trans pan gasket+all 22 hex bolts have been replaced
- Lifeguard5=Esso LT71141 (I ordered 6 quarts) for $87.

Job has been successfully done! car still driving smooth as usual.

[upallnight]

Don't know if anyone corrected the comment by the original poster (didn't want to go through all the posts) that the car was brought to operating temp when he did the second fluid add with the engine running, but the fluid in the trans and when I say trans I also mean the torque converter should be in a range of 30C to 50C. Since our engine operates at close to 195F which is pretty close to the temp at which water boil 100C bringing the car to operating temp, exceeds the 50C range that the fluid should be at according to the procedure for checking and filling the trans.

[Multibeemer]

Originally Posted by upallnight

Don't know if anyone corrected the comment by the original poster (didn't want to go through all the posts) that the car was brought to operating temp when he did the second fluid add with the engine running, but the fluid in the trans and when I say trans I also mean the torque converter should be in a range of 30C to 50C. Since our engine operates at close to 195F which is pretty close to the temp at which water boil 100C bringing the car to operating temp, exceeds the 50C range that the fluid should be at according to the procedure for checking and filling the trans.

That's an important point, because if you get the transmission too hot, the fluid with expand, causing it to spill out of the fill hole before the transmission is truly full.

To add more fuel to the fire surrounding the controversy about whether changing the trans fluid makes sense, I'd offer this - the average American keeps his car around 10 years now. This means there are probably tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of cars driving around with well over 150,000 miles on them. Of these, I'd say less than 20% have ever had their transmission fluid changed. If it were really that critical to do this, the roadsides would be strewn with cars with dead transmissions. I'm not saying this is a terrible thing to do, I'm just not convinced it really makes much difference, plus it's not exactly an inexpensive bit of maintenance.

As one anecdotal data point, I drained and filled the trans fluid on my daughter's 04 E46 about a year and a half, and 18,000 miles, ago. The fluid that came out looked brand new - not even a trace of sediment in the pan. It even smelled new. We have the records of the car since new, and there's no record of the trans fluid ever having been changed. It ran fine before, and it ran fine after the drain & fill. But now, 18 months later, it's starting to slip when cold. So, my conclusion is that the drain and fill didn't cause the current problem, but I don't think it did anything to delay it, either. In other words, I don't think it had any effect one way or the other. I think I'm going to pass on the drain & fill on our other two BMWs, including the X5.

[upallnight]

There was a commercial one time about a mechanic and his parting remarks was you can pay me now or pay me later.

The analogy is that the preventative maintenance cost will be less than the repair cost later.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by upallnight

There was a commercial one time about a mechanic and his parting remarks was you can pay me now or pay me later.

The analogy is that the preventative maintenance cost will be less than the repair cost later.

The problem with applying that to automatic transmissions is that changing fluids doesn't qualify as preventative maintenance, since there isn't a correlation between changing the fluid and getting more life out of the transmission, at least on recent model BMWs.

As a mechanic and service manager, I didn't sell transmission fluid changes most of the time.

[upallnight]

Since most of the containments in ATF is the semi-metallic material from the clutch packs I would say that replacing ATF is a preventative measure. The electro servos in the trans are nothing more than electromagnets which causes the valves to open or close. Having all that semi metallic material in the fluid will be attracted to those servos, that is why the manufacturers installs permanent magnets in the pan to attract those material and prevent them from circulating through the trans.

The manufacturers of the trans used in our X is either Zf or GM both recommends ATF fluid changes, only BMW in order to reduce their "Free Maintenance" cost to owners call the ATF Life time hoping that the trans will not crap out before the warranty.

[Multibeemer]

I agree that eventually, the contaminants in the fluid will cause problems with the transmission. I'm just not convinced this will on average happen before other components not related to the fluid, such as the clutch packs, wear out.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea to replace the transmission fluid, and in some cases, it might increase the life of your transmission. But I'm with JCL that in most cases, it won't really do much, if anything. It definitely didn't in the case of my daughter's E46. Otherwise, as I said, there would be thousands of cars in this country with dead transmissions, when in fact, transmission failure really isn't that common of a problem.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by upallnight

Since most of the containments in ATF is the semi-metallic material from the clutch packs I would say that replacing ATF is a preventative measure. The electro servos in the trans are nothing more than electromagnets which causes the valves to open or close. Having all that semi metallic material in the fluid will be attracted to those servos, that is why the manufacturers installs permanent magnets in the pan to attract those material and prevent them from circulating through the trans.

The manufacturers of the trans used in our X is either Zf or GM both recommends ATF fluid changes, only BMW in order to reduce their "Free Maintenance" cost to owners call the ATF Life time hoping that the trans will not crap out before the warranty.

And once that semi-metallic material goes into the pan it either sits on the magnet, or stays on the dirty side of the screen. In both cases, it does no harm there.

If the reason for not changing fluid was because of the prepaid maintenance offered in the US, then it would follow that all the rest of the world, with no prepaid maintenance, would have a different recommendation, namely to change the fluid. But they don't. And if BMW was concerned, then they wouldn't be holding the lease residuals on all those leased vehicles, without reducing their exposure.

What is different with BMW and those same transmissions in other vehicles? The transmission cooling system. The control software that reduces power during shifts. The torque converter lock-up strategy. The transmission monitoring algorithms. Etc, etc. That is probably why those two manufacturers endorsed BMW's maintenance strategy.