BMW X5 CCV

[JCL]

Originally Posted by steelheader

The five has two parts and 6 hoses that should be changed every two years or so in cold climates one is the oil separator (that pic with the tape up JOB )and the back cover plate of the intake its a pcv valve .It gets weak or full of that yellowish gunk (it freezes)that was on the bottom of Your oil cap ?.You replace them and Your cold weather troubles with it should be gone . if any part of the system has a clog the whole thing will back up and put pressure on the vc gasket,or sends the oil in the intake down the motor then hydro locked motor .4.4 usually blow oil out the vc gaskets from what I can tell the 3.0 6cyl motors sucks the oil down the intake onto the pistons .

You are focusing on the symptoms, not the root cause. You can't just say replace your hoses and your troubles will be gone. Drive the vehicle as it was intended, ie get it hot regularly, and your troubles will be gone because the condensate won't build up. Don't do so, and the condensate will continue to form. Replace your hoses if you like, to deal with it, but make sure and go back and do it regularly because you haven't fixed the problem, just the symptom.

Both engines can pressurize the crankcase and blow oil out, or draw oil from the sump into the intake and risk a hydrolock. It doesn't depend on the engine model, it depends on whether in each instance the CCV freezes in the closed position (thus pressurizing the crankcase) or the open position (thus drawing engine oil into the intake due to vacuum.

[steelheader]

Show me a 4.4 that hydro locked on line or utube there all 6cyl, Dude did you see the pic of his os . The guy tried to tape it up with foil and tape. Has to be a fool ,and whats funny is people let him touch there 5 .That's a huge vacume leak to start off .Basically try to restore to new is what I was saying .While looking for a 4.4 hydro locked motor I found a range rover utube tech that says to change the pcv (back of the intake plate )every 7000 miles must see video for any x5 owner with a v8!!!!

[Sniffer]

Originally Posted by steelheader

Show me a 4.4 that hydro locked on line or utube there all 6cyl, Dude did you see the pic of his os . The guy tried to tape it up with foil and tape. Has to be a fool ,and whats funny is people let him touch there 5 .That's a huge vacume leak to start off .Basically try to restore to new is what I was saying .While looking for a 4.4 hydro locked motor I found a range rover utube tech that says to change the pcv (back of the intake plate )every 7000 miles must see video for any x5 owner with a v8!!!!

In the interests of accuracy I`m 99.99% sure that the foil (an attempt to stop it freezing I`m guessing) was placed there by the guy I bought it from - NOT by any of the mechanics who have subsequently worked on it

I should also add that the guy who first replaced the gaskets added a "blow off valve" type device that didnt work (obviously), most likely because it was installed at the rear of the engine with the output pointed downwards meaning that water (condensate) could collect there and freeze (Doh!)

I only discovered on friday as to how he had modified a vacuum line into the CCV too - he did tell me when I last picked it up that he had undertaken this modification and it should cure the problem

I dont fully understand what was going on but from memory I think there was a vacuum pipe blocked off and another drain pipe had been rerouted to somewhere it wasnt designed to go - my current mechanic said this was a bad idea as it created too much vacuum and was unnecessary so he intends to put it back to stock

[Sniffer]

Would insulating any of these pipes with something of decent quality be beneficial to combat freezing? I dont mean tinfoil like the previous owner seemed to have a fetish for but something better

[JCL]

Originally Posted by steelheader

Show me a 4.4 that hydro locked on line or utube there all 6cyl, Dude did you see the pic of his os . The guy tried to tape it up with foil and tape. Has to be a fool ,and whats funny is people let him touch there 5 .That's a huge vacume leak to start off .Basically try to restore to new is what I was saying .While looking for a 4.4 hydro locked motor I found a range rover utube tech that says to change the pcv (back of the intake plate )every 7000 miles must see video for any x5 owner with a v8!!!!

I don't consider YouTube a diagnostic aid. Not sure what this utube is that you speak of. Being able to google something doesn't make one a mechanic. Or a statistician, for that matter.

There, their, and they're are all different words. It is difficult to follow your posts.

But if you go back to the mechanical fundamentals, I suggest that understanding the failure mode and resolving that is more productive. I agree with restoring to factory design and condition. I don't agree that will resolve his problems forever, as you stated it would, unless he modifies his driving pattern, or alternatively, includes regular CCV servicing in his PM program.

[Sniffer]

Regarding the spout of the PCV that was blocked up I found this post on a Range Rover (which uses the same M62 BMW engine) forum which suggests it IS beneficial:

Hi I have been following. Keenly and yes I can confirm that that little orifice is you primary issue, it is sucking in condensation which in turn freezes and blocks the pipe once the engine gets cold. The mechanics should have blocked it the FIRST time they changed out the pcv valve. If they had paid attention they would have seen the old piece. They removed was blocked. So cap that hole and you will be all set.. Isn't it amazing how such a trivial error can cause such a huge headache?. peace.

Thoughts.....?

[JCL]

Originally Posted by Sniffer

Would insulating any of these pipes with something of decent quality be beneficial to combat freezing? I dont mean tinfoil like the previous owner seemed to have a fetish for but something better

Insulation doesn't prevent freezing, it just slows it down. If there is enough heat to not freeze by the time you drive it again, fine, it helped. Leave it long enough in the cold and it won't matter, it will all come to ambient temperature. But realize that insulation also slows down the heating process when you have under hood heat available after you start it.

[Sniffer]

Originally Posted by JCL

Insulation doesn't prevent freezing, it just slows it down. If there is enough heat to not freeze by the time you drive it again, fine, it helped. Leave it long enough in the cold and it won't matter, it will all come to ambient temperature. But realize that insulation also slows down the heating process when you have under hood heat available after you start it.

Good points, ultimately I feel that this was a flaw in the vehicle design, I know you disagree with me on this JCL - you are more of the opinion that my driving style (never getting the engine hot enough to burn off the condensate) is the issue

Fact is I live in a cold climate and do a range of mixed driving - my commute is just over 20 miles each way - ample time I feel to heat the engine up to full operating temperature unless there is some sort of issue preventing that from happening

I believe had BMW fitted the CCV system internally like my mechanic tried to talk me into doing to cure the fault once and for all I `d be reasonably sure I wouldnt have had these issues despite living in a cold climate

I very much doubt I`ll keep the vehicle now as I`ve lost faith in it, shame as I love it when it functions as it should......

[JCL]

If you start with the assumption that limited short trips are normal, and that no additional maintenance should be required because of this use pattern, fine. Forget the freezing for a moment. Pretend it is always summer. What you are saying is that driving around with all that moisture in your engine and oil is fine and not detrimental. Many would disagree with that position.

I think it is probably best that you sell it. I think we discussed that in this thread some time back, IIRC

[Sniffer]

Originally Posted by JCL

If you start with the assumption that limited short trips are normal, and that no additional maintenance should be required because of this use pattern, fine. Forget the freezing for a moment. Pretend it is always summer. What you are saying is that driving around with all that moisture in your engine and oil is fine and not detrimental. Many would disagree with that position.

I think it is probably best that you sell it. I think we discussed that in this thread some time back, IIRC

Surely thats what oil changes get rid of?

The last vehicle I had was well known to have condensation issues - many owners described having a milky oil/water mix present on the oil filler cap but despite doing LOTS of short trips (sub 5 miles - owing to the type of work I was doing at the time there was no way to avoid this) and the vehicle being too thermal efficient (another well known characteristic of the model which drove me mad - it took FOREVER to heat up and I even saw it drop in temperature on occasion as I drove along - thermostat was changed BTW) I had zero issues in 140,000 miles of driving

Not once had I a frozen anything to deal with and not once did I have to service anything to ensure that was the case

This takes me back to my point that what I have experienced is a design flaw and that the average owner (ie someone who simply wants a vehicle to get from A - B and has neither the time nor inclination to pull their engine in pieces periodically) should not have to contend with

So I agree - this vehicle is not best suited to my needs and on this occasion BMW was not "The ultimate driving machine" in my opinion