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#191
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2002 X5 3.0 282,000 miles 2004 325i 120,800 miles |
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#192
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OMG! He really did it! Took less than 30 mins! Where *is* that article?
For anyone who'd like some help to quickly identify what is going on and what will eventually happen in these cases, I offer these guidelines: Great article: Quote:
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#193
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Trader4--I agree with you---You don't see what the problem is because you are the problem. It is a choice you make each time you make a post. In this case you choose to be destructive rather than constructive. When you make a statement with as I see it, or in my world, I don't see how-- it clearly is an opinion rather than a statement of fact. When that is the case there is no reason to be defensive when someone disagrees and to relentlessly defend your opinion. You see constructive difference of opinions that are handled peaceably all the time--Threads such as the best oil to use or should I change my transmission fluid.
In this case you are challenging 50 years of racers removing stock fans in favor of aftermarket fans. You are challenging decades of eliminating clutch fans in favor of electric fans. All for the sole purpose to have the use of the horsepower that was taken to run the fan they removed. The recovered HP has always been from 4 to near 20HP depending on the application. For my particular application the Flex-A-Lite techs estimated the recovered HP would be 7-10HP saying they try to be conservative and cautioned that dyno results vary by dyno as do back to back pulls and pulls at a later date. I think that for mild mannered Kent daily driving the change is a subjective value equation. IMO, if Kent's clutch fan died and the he intended to keep the vehicle for a year or more and is a DIYer it is worth consideration, especially if Kent is Located in a long winter or hot summer climate. You now have another choice which is how you respond to this post. You can be constructive or destructive, you can peacefully contribute or you can be defensive. You have done both in other threads so I know it is a conscious choice you make. I make the same choice. I'm sure by now members know I challenge posts that I view as uncalled for especially those involving new members. And, would like me to drop continued responses long before I do. I am well aware of that. You are not singled out by me or anyone else when you choose to be peaceably constructive. You will always be challenged or called out when you are not. The primary reason is the person wanting help expects posts to be helpful and on topic. The topic of my thread is-- has anyone removed the clutch fan and replaced it with an electric fan. I had no question in my mind that it will be worthwhile I was merely interested in what they did and why. I have made the switch many many times over the years and each time it was a great HP gain per dollar spent investment. The Dinan mods delivered 29HP. The cost was several thousand dollars. The electric fan and controller cost was about $400. The reason is that 10HP in round numbers equates to a .1 improvement in elapsed quarter mile time or one car length.
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X5 4.6 2002 Black Sap, Black interior. 2013 X5M Melbourne Red, Bamboo interior Dallas Last edited by bcredliner; 07-08-2015 at 12:14 PM. |
#194
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#195
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I can find an endorsement to either side of almost any question. You are grasping at straws rather than accepting overwhelming evidence that you are incorrect. You are making a fool of yourself by continuing to ignore overwhelming input contrary to your position. You are ignoring 50 years of racers making this change as a great value to have more horsepower available to them. The range based on the application has been a conservative 4-20HP benefit. Per your article, CarCraft was saying it is as much as 30HP. I didn't notice the date of this article but I would like to read the CarCraft article I may be leaving HP on the table.
It is not about having no fan all of the time. It is having no fan when you need all the horsepower available. Keep in mind this is only about racing, has nothing to do with daily driving. In racing the engine is almost always in the upper RPM ranges, significantly more than 3500 RPMs and the electric fan will not be running. In addition, I shift at 6,500 RPMs. That means if we accept the article as gospel than we have to accept the horsepower used will increase significantly more that 5HP. My purpose for installing an electric fan has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH DAILY DRIVING. That has been crystal clear from the first post. Daily driving conclusions associated with the performance of an electric fan are clutter, useless, not applicable. Non technical people debate the worth of electric fans, have for many years. You article appears to be a non-tech person as no credentials are included. While he mentions engine oil and water temp was the same. What about air temp and humidity and the test were without forced air equal to the speed associated with the engine RPM. If I presented this 'test' to you as fact I would expect these same responses. Doesn't take much common sense to see your article is full of holes and not scientific. If you can't objectively consider input contrary to as you see it and adjust your as you see it, I suggest you stop posting. You are being self destructive, losing all credibility here. If you see this as winning or losing then I suggest you evaluate if you can win and how much support you have here for ---how you see it. Cut your losses--at this point I don't think there is anything you can do or say that will garner you a win. There are no credentials for the person conducting the tests and the fans were rescued from parts laying around, no verification of the condition. Further, if you read past the test information he says the clutch fan test was invalid because the engine was not up to operating temperature. And, you are asking me to accept these findings over what Carcraft printed and sold copies to hundreds of thousand of readers. We have no idea if the clutch fan is anything like a BMW clutch fan. Are you saying this individual is more credible than CarCraft Magazine and 50 years of serious racers? Do you really think you know more then all that evidence to the contrary.
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X5 4.6 2002 Black Sap, Black interior. 2013 X5M Melbourne Red, Bamboo interior Dallas Last edited by bcredliner; 07-08-2015 at 11:38 PM. |
#196
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Don't do it redliner... lol... don't get sucked back down the rabbit hole.
As you say, he's lost all credibility here... so it really matters not what he posts. But what we respond with. Just ignore the troll. Like you, I've seen some helpful posts from Trader but in this particular case... he has made up his mind about this subject and will not falter from it. He will ignore 100 pieces of evidence contradicting his position if he can find 1 piece that supports it. And even in that case he is cherry picking parts of it. Just let it go... you can't talk to a deaf man (or woman, I'm not sexist.) Although the stubborn nature of the poster might be more easily explained if it were a woman... holy crap maybe I AM sexist. JK Ahhhh Sailor Jerry you are wonderful.
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2005 X5 4.4i Build 04/05 Maintenance/Build Log Nav, Pano, Sport (Purchased 06/14 w/ 109,000 miles) (Sold 8/15 w/121,000 miles) 2006 X5 4.8is Build 11/05 Maintenance/Build Log Nav, DSP, Pano, Running Boards, OEM Tow Hitch, Cold Weather Pckg (Purchased 08/15 w/ 90,500 miles) 2010 X5 35d Build 02/10 Nav, HiFi, 6 DVD, Sports Pckg, Cold Weather Pckg, HUD, CAS, Running Boards, Leather Dash, PDC, Pano (Purchased 03/17 w/ 136,120 miles) |
#197
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Interesting topic.
Besides the topic, you guys should look at trader and your conversation from a different perspective. He's asking questions you guys can't answer. I'm not sure anyone could answer them. There is no way to dyno a car as it is moving down the freeway. I asked the same question at the beginning. Power required for work is power period. Some of these electrics fans move more air than the stock ones do, so how does it compute? I wish I new. Anyways, here's the test I want to see, and BC your in the perfect spot depending on how accurate your aftermarket temp sensor is. Set the fan to come on, say 3-5* above the normal running temp which is what? That depends on where your sensor is. I would like to see if the fan would ever come on. If it didn't, which it shouldn't,you would have the best of both worlds!
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2001 E53 4.4 Alpine White, Sports Package 2000 E36/7 2.8 5 speed Bright Red w/ a HT! |
#198
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Ah the ignore list is so nice. Its like sweet serenity, you guys should try it. I could care less if he talks shit about me and I can't see it.
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2018 Ram 2500 6.7L Cummins 68RFE 19k miles -Bright White/Black - Big Horn Sport - Crew Cab Short Bed 2013 X5 35D (CEO's) - Born on 5/17/2013 - 82k miles - Alpine White/Cinnamon Brown/Premium Pkg, Sport Activity/Premium Pkg and Sound/20" Style 214/Running Boards |
#199
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I have decided to ask the administrator to delete this thread. It is useless after Page 7 when Trader4 joined. I have called out Trader4 in the past. Lately he seeks out my posts, cluttering them up with his well earned troll trademark. I kept responding until everyone following the thread would see his true colors. It's way past that but I enjoy reading how he total disregards input and misinterprets almost everything he reads. I don't what his problem is but in my view he is extremely sick and I am very happy I don't live near him.
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X5 4.6 2002 Black Sap, Black interior. 2013 X5M Melbourne Red, Bamboo interior Dallas |
#200
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The mod/admin should delete all posts by Trader... and all of those directly responding to him by myself, you, and others. Clean up the thread so it can once again be a useful collection of info/advice for those looking to possibly make the switch to electric cooling fan.
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2005 X5 4.4i Build 04/05 Maintenance/Build Log Nav, Pano, Sport (Purchased 06/14 w/ 109,000 miles) (Sold 8/15 w/121,000 miles) 2006 X5 4.8is Build 11/05 Maintenance/Build Log Nav, DSP, Pano, Running Boards, OEM Tow Hitch, Cold Weather Pckg (Purchased 08/15 w/ 90,500 miles) 2010 X5 35d Build 02/10 Nav, HiFi, 6 DVD, Sports Pckg, Cold Weather Pckg, HUD, CAS, Running Boards, Leather Dash, PDC, Pano (Purchased 03/17 w/ 136,120 miles) |
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