2001 E53 3.0i No Crank no Start. - Page 3

bcredliner · #1 10-16-2019, 02:08 PM

May be ignition switch. Any other symptoms such as dash lights going out or not on at all?

HansBimmers · #2 10-16-2019, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcredliner

May be ignition switch. Any other symptoms such as dash lights going out or not on at all?

What would be a clue as to when dash lights inapppropriately going out? Mine come on as normal. Dont turn off except coolant and gas warning lamps.
Pics are initial on position, then 6 seconds later still at on position, and lastly turned to start position.

Anything unusual with the lights?

bcredliner · #3 10-17-2019, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HansBimmers

What would be a clue as to when dash lights inapppropriately going out? Mine come on as normal. Dont turn off except coolant and gas warning lamps.
Pics are initial on position, then 6 seconds later still at on position, and lastly turned to start position.

Anything unusual with the lights?

The key input from indie is that problem is between steering wheel and starter. That is an indication the ignition switch may be the culprit. Dash lights can malfunction when the key is on or in the start position. There is no one symptom of dash lights on/off that is conclusive the ignition switch is bad. However, if lights are on or off when they would normally be the opposite it is reasonable to suspect the ignition switch is the problem.

When the engine is in the on position all dash lights illuminate. Lights such as gas warning, parking brake and brake go off when key is in on position. Oil, battery and service engine soon go off when engine is started. Unfortunately, the dash light symptom is not always present when ignition is bad.

The ignition switch failing is most often after 100,000 miles though widely varies as there is no constant for the number of times the ignition switch is used over any X miles.

A failed starter relay or starter is a more common cause of your problem though per indie that possibility has been eliminated.

HansBimmers · #4 10-19-2019, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcredliner

The key input from indie is that problem is between steering wheel and starter. That is an indication the ignition switch may be the culprit. Dash lights can malfunction when the key is on or in the start position. There is no one symptom of dash lights on/off that is conclusive the ignition switch is bad. However, if lights are on or off when they would normally be the opposite it is reasonable to suspect the ignition switch is the problem.

When the engine is in the on position all dash lights illuminate. Lights such as gas warning, parking brake and brake go off when key is in on position. Oil, battery and service engine soon go off when engine is started. Unfortunately, the dash light symptom is not always present when ignition is bad.

The ignition switch failing is most often after 100,000 miles though widely varies as there is no constant for the number of times the ignition switch is used over any X miles.

A failed starter relay or starter is a more common cause of your problem though per indie that possibility has been eliminated.

Wow, thanks to you and others, this is sounding more and more plausible, great explanation on this topic. I think some of those lights should have turned off on the instrument cluster turning to the start position, but didn’t. I think I will change that ignition switch out and see if it makes a difference.

HansBimmers · #5 10-16-2019, 02:34 PM

All the dash lights light up as normal when I turn the key to the on position.

I checked the shifter and ran it thru the paces to make sure it wasn't the safety switch in there getting crusty.

The key fob remote control part is dead, I planned on changing/resoldering the lithium battery in there but never got to it, and it went thru the washer and dryer a few months before the X5 decided not to start. Not sure if its related issue or not.

I don't have a spare key for it, it didn't come with one. But I do have other similar looking bmw fob keys from my other bimmers, I don't know if that could help diagnose the rolling code issues that are rare, but known on these vehicles.

Does anyone know the proper voltage for each signal wire running to the solenoid? I think someone mentioned a digital signal from the security system on one, and then a 12v trigger on the other, and I am not sure I am getting proper voltage on either. Could that point to a particular component failure?

Thanks for any help!

wpoll · #6 10-16-2019, 03:44 PM

Pretty sure there's no "digital" signal involved in activating the starting motor via the solenoid. I think what you are seeing on the 'scope is just "noise".

Start here maybe...?

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...ontrol/arwFCfu

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...ontrol/ohBOFFa

HansBimmers · #7 11-01-2019, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wpoll

Pretty sure there's no "digital" signal involved in activating the starting motor via the solenoid. I think what you are seeing on the 'scope is just "noise".

Start here maybe...?

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...ontrol/arwFCfu

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...ontrol/ohBOFFa

Wayne, thank you, I am going back and looking at what you posted, I think your onto something with this wiring diagram. I picked up a used power module/fuse relay setup with those funny looking (slow-blow?) fuses in it.

Here are some pics of the complete module for reference. Also looks like there is some electronics, circuit board, possibly part of the factory alarm immobilizer in there:

wpoll · #8 10-20-2019, 05:42 AM

FWIW, I think what you are seeing on the 'scope is just high frequency "leakage" on the unterminated (floating) starter DC wiring. The high input impedance of the 'scope will tend to pick up spikes etc. from the many PWM cicuits in the car...

HansBimmers · #9 10-20-2019, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wpoll

FWIW, I think what you are seeing on the 'scope is just high frequency "leakage" on the unterminated (floating) starter DC wiring. The high input impedance of the 'scope will tend to pick up spikes etc. from the many PWM cicuits in the car...

Interesting, makes sense to me as that is the typical oscilloscope pattern you would see for a PWM.

Oldmactech · #10 10-22-2019, 12:36 PM

Dunno for sure but might be an emergency lockout due to impact or something. Is your fuel pump humming?
I think these cars have a rollover sensor that would activate if the wheels are too far off axis or whatever the correct term is . Supposed to kill fuel to a rollover accident. Might cause send a signal to ignition also to prevent fire. Disconnect the battery for 30 mins or so to clear any codes?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk