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  #31  
Old 10-18-2019, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HansBimmers View Post
Hello X5 forum people!
First time poster, but have been a car guy for 32 years and owned Bimmers for 15 years.

Having a very similar issue, figured I would post in here so people can get more insight to the problem and solution for this:

2001 BMW X5 3.0, will not start, no clicking even coming from starter. Tested wire terminals to starter, thick one has 12.6 volts as it should, both starter solenoid contact wires go from 20mv (ignition off), to 50mv /34hertz (ignition on) on the black/green wire on the topside of solenoid. Bottom skinny wire on solenoid (black wire) goes from 20mv (ignition off), to 50mv (ignition on) with no hertz. No change from ignition on to start position on key.

Check out the oscilloscope readings for detailed patterns on the voltage.

Thanks for any input, it's greatly appreciated.
What you are asking is way above the experience level of 99.9% of the DIYers on this forum.
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  #32  
Old 10-19-2019, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by bcredliner View Post
The key input from indie is that problem is between steering wheel and starter. That is an indication the ignition switch may be the culprit. Dash lights can malfunction when the key is on or in the start position. There is no one symptom of dash lights on/off that is conclusive the ignition switch is bad. However, if lights are on or off when they would normally be the opposite it is reasonable to suspect the ignition switch is the problem.

When the engine is in the on position all dash lights illuminate. Lights such as gas warning, parking brake and brake go off when key is in on position. Oil, battery and service engine soon go off when engine is started. Unfortunately, the dash light symptom is not always present when ignition is bad.

The ignition switch failing is most often after 100,000 miles though widely varies as there is no constant for the number of times the ignition switch is used over any X miles.

A failed starter relay or starter is a more common cause of your problem though per indie that possibility has been eliminated.
Wow, thanks to you and others, this is sounding more and more plausible, great explanation on this topic. I think some of those lights should have turned off on the instrument cluster turning to the start position, but didnít. I think I will change that ignition switch out and see if it makes a difference.
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  #33  
Old 10-19-2019, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by upallnight View Post
What you are asking is way above the experience level of 99.9% of the DIYers on this forum.
That may be true, but all I need is one intelligent answer to fix it.
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  #34  
Old 10-20-2019, 05:42 AM
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FWIW, I think what you are seeing on the 'scope is just high frequency "leakage" on the unterminated (floating) starter DC wiring. The high input impedance of the 'scope will tend to pick up spikes etc. from the many PWM cicuits in the car...
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  #35  
Old 10-20-2019, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by wpoll View Post
FWIW, I think what you are seeing on the 'scope is just high frequency "leakage" on the unterminated (floating) starter DC wiring. The high input impedance of the 'scope will tend to pick up spikes etc. from the many PWM cicuits in the car...
Interesting, makes sense to me as that is the typical oscilloscope pattern you would see for a PWM.
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  #36  
Old 10-22-2019, 12:36 PM
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Dunno for sure but might be an emergency lockout due to impact or something. Is your fuel pump humming?
I think these cars have a rollover sensor that would activate if the wheels are too far off axis or whatever the correct term is . Supposed to kill fuel to a rollover accident. Might cause send a signal to ignition also to prevent fire. Disconnect the battery for 30 mins or so to clear any codes?




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  #37  
Old 10-22-2019, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Oldmactech View Post
Dunno for sure but might be an emergency lockout due to impact or something. Is your fuel pump humming?
I think these cars have a rollover sensor that would activate if the wheels are too far off axis or whatever the correct term is . Supposed to kill fuel to a rollover accident. Might cause send a signal to ignition also to prevent fire. Disconnect the battery for 30 mins or so to clear any codes?

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Interesting, I have not explored that issue in a long time. Back in 1987, before I knew better, I owned an 88' Ford T-bird and somehow tripped the fuel shutoff inertia switch just from driving like a teenager., no accident or rollover. It had to be manually reset behind the rear seat in a hidden spot underneath some trim carpet.
BMW's inertia switch sounds like it is self resetting with a battery disconnect? But it may also affect starter cranking?

I'm sure it will affect fuel pump operation. I remember when they passed a federal law into effect for manufacturers to follow on that directive.

Thanks for the input, hopefully getting to this ignition switch swap today!
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  #38  
Old 10-22-2019, 05:35 PM
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I swapped electric starter/ ignition switch without taking the old one out of place physically, hooked in the new one in electrically, kept the key in the ignition and then bam! Nothing but indifference compared to the old switch.
I tried to check starter relays with a generic Bosch relay, but will that work for testing purposes? Not even sure which one it is on my relay panel in the passenger side under the hood box. Mine does not look exactly like pictures Iíve seen. Here is the configuration of my relay box shown.

With regards to checking the big fuse for the starter, what type and size fuse are they do I can get some spares? Do I just unbolt the fuse panel after a battery disconnect and then itís reachable?

Thanks for all your help, but still needing more!
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Last edited by HansBimmers; 10-22-2019 at 07:55 PM.
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  #39  
Old 11-01-2019, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wpoll View Post
Pretty sure there's no "digital" signal involved in activating the starting motor via the solenoid. I think what you are seeing on the 'scope is just "noise".

Start here maybe...?

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...ontrol/arwFCfu

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...ontrol/ohBOFFa
Wayne, thank you, I am going back and looking at what you posted, I think your onto something with this wiring diagram. I picked up a used power module/fuse relay setup with those funny looking (slow-blow?) fuses in it.

Here are some pics of the complete module for reference. Also looks like there is some electronics, circuit board, possibly part of the factory alarm immobilizer in there:
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