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  #1  
Old 04-17-2019, 09:12 PM
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Check engine light E70 X5 50i

I have been having a ton of problems with my Ď13 E70 50i since the warranty expired 2 months ago. It was a certified car and has about 60k miles. It has been in and out of the shop about 5 times during this time. This is my wifeís daily driver, so I need it to be reliable, and it hasnít been.

Most recently, we got a check engine light and my wife took it in for service. They said the O2 sensors needed replacement as well as the dmtl pump. That cost $2k. Oh and they wanted to replace the rear brake rotors and control arm bushings, although they acknowledged they werenít actually bad, for another $2k. I declined that.

She picked the car up after the new O2 sensors and pump were replaced. The following day, the check engine light came back on. I ran a code reader and got P2096 and P2198. Back to service it went. The SA called the next day and said the intake charge pipes and crankcase vent hoses need to be replaced for yet another $2k. I declined because at this point I donít trust them. When I picked the car up, thereís a clunk when turning that wasnít there before and the engine cover was not attached.

Has anyone had these problems? And if it actually is the charge pipes and crankcase vent hoses, what should I reasonably expect for replacement cost? They look intact, and it seems extremely unlikely that they all started leaking the day after the oxygen sensors were replaced. This is my 12th BMW and by far the most problematic. Itís also the most difficult dealership. I would upgrade to the new one, but Iím not a fan of the look since 2014. I may be done with BMW for good after this one. Any suggestions (besides donít own a BMW out of warranty)?
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  #2  
Old 04-17-2019, 11:55 PM
ard ard is offline
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why a dealer?!?!?!


You likely didnt have bad o2 sensors. You had air leaks on some hoses, caused AFR issues and O2 codes...lazy dealer didnt bother really trying to diagnose. And since you're rich and not really concerned with cost, they figured 'wth, see if the customer will bend over'. Now that the new o2s didnt fix it, they are going down the list of "customer paid parts cannon"


2k for o2s and dmtl? 4 O2 sensors or just two? Did you bother shopping? Shops screw people who seem like easy marks. Just the way it is. Sending a wife to drop a car (as opposed to engaging the SA with conversations about error codes, demonstrating you arent to be lied to) is sadly not a good idea. Shoudlnt matter of course, but women are taken advantage of....


Do you want to know how to troubleshoot? Or how to find a shop? or ??
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Old 04-18-2019, 09:36 AM
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Yeah needless to say, I'm done with this dealership. The problem is that it's the closest by far and there aren't any other independent shops near me. I work, so when the car is acting up, my wife has to take it in. I was quoted $898 for O2 sensors (supposedly a full set), but they only replaced 2. They charged $625 for parts and tried to convince my wife there would be another $898 for a second set when she took it back the next day. The dmtl pump was $626 installed. The total came to $2100 including tax and an evaluation fee and I got them to discount it down to $1810.

I got more involved when the light came on the next day. I ran the code reader at that point. If it is the hoses (could it be all 4?? That seems unlikely), total for parts from Pelican is around $200. The dealership quoted me $2k installed. If I can find a shop to do it, I suspect I can get this done for $500 total. I would upgrade the charge pipes to metal ones, but cant find a set of aftermarket ones for the N63.

Is this pretty easy work that any mechanic can do or do I need a BMW shop?
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Old 04-18-2019, 10:59 AM
ard ard is offline
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So a couple of thoughts...

First, sounds like you have learned a lesson (one burnt, twice learnt).

Second, with AFR issues it can be exceedingly difficult to troubleshoot. The old 'here's the code, replace this part' is often times a trap. When you have issues with fuel, maybe due to air leaks, issues with vanos, other causes, the DME injects too much fuel. Maybe not at all RPMSs, maybe not enoguh to trip all errors. You have two opposit codes- pre cat O2 stuck rich, post cat too lean. Odd. I've not deal with this, but maybe one bank is swamped and the other is being driven lean? I'd want to look at long term and short term fuel trims fore each bank. You may have leaky air hoses or maybe injector issues.

Third- most important- dealer GUESS at issues. Bad dealers take the codes, and simply start replacing the parts that BMW lists as 'possible issues' under the code description. They don't do any troubleshooting or test plans. And why should they? At $868 for 20 minutes of work and $200 in parts, acutally figuuring out the true issue isn't in their best interests. My point here is to NOT assume if you buy the parts you think you need (based on their second guess) you may not be successful. I cannot tell you how often people go to a dealer, get an earnest diagnosis and price/parts, decline...then replace the parts and find that wasn't it. Dealers train their SAs extensively on the "Oh, it was also something else" story.

Fourth- no shops in south Florida??

Fifth- there are three places in the US that are legendary for ripping off customers: SF Bay Area; Seattle WA; South Florida.

All I got. I'd kick the bushes here, see if someone can recommend a good shop.
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Old 04-18-2019, 11:36 AM
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Find a good independent shop.

I've only had good experiences with warranty work at the dealer. Of course, this is their dime and time so they do their best to get it right and get the car out.

We had an e46 325i that had a cyl1 misfire according to an inexpensive code reader. It would misfire when idling cold. If I was manually raising the idle with my right foot during after cold starts, the SEL would not show. After it reaches operating temp, it idled fine. I drove it 750 miles r/t to Socal in this condition. It wasn't the coil as we swapped them around, 1 to 4. DISA seemed fine also.

We took it in to BMW San Francisco and $200 later, they said it needed cylinder head work. Later, we sold the car to a mechanic who probably fixed a vacuum leak that I couldn't find.
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Old 04-18-2019, 12:07 PM
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Ok thanks to all. Just to clarify, I’m in a suburb of Tampa, so while the rip-off side is probably not any better because it’s still Florida, there aren't any independent shops close enough that would be convenient for my wife while wrangling a very active 3-yr old. That’s the draw with the dealership, which is close and provides a loaner. But I think I’ll have to try a non-BMW service shop that’s close. If they can’t do it, maybe they can refer me to someone who can.

The paperwork does indicate that they did a smoke test and found the intake and crankcase vent hoses leaking. I can’t imagine they are all bad at the same time, and I suspect either they loosened them at some point or didn’t reattach them properly. On prior service visits, they told us twice that the engine might need replacement. It never did, but they did replace the solenoid valve and oil pan gasket when it was still under warranty, which required removing a lot and putting back together. If they cant even put the engine cover on right, I doubt they could reattach everything else. As I say, this one has been extremely problematic.
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Old 04-18-2019, 06:57 PM
ard ard is offline
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They may have done a smoke test, and may have found a leak- but it is hard to diagnose specific hoses (ie A,B and D are cracked) using smoke testing. You kinda see leaks 'under there'.


Either way, you want another shop.


The local BMWCCA may maintain a listing of indies. There is a website too:


https://www.bmwcca.org/forum/index.p...rt-here.10432/


https://www.bimmershops.com/search?q=tampa%2C%20fl


Most shops can get Enterprise to get you a car. It wont be a bimmer, and it wont be free. But the loaner at the dealer isnt free either.
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Old 04-24-2019, 03:25 PM
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So I took it to an independent shop and they found cylinder misfire and oxygen sensor faults. They say the spark plugs need replacement, which sounds right since it's around that time. I don't think the O2 sensors were bad or that there is a leak in the charge pipes or crankcase vent tubes. I'll have the spark plugs done and hope this resolves it.
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Old 04-24-2019, 05:04 PM
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Get your CCV tubes replaced and do your plugs but dont do anything else yet. I have a 50i and if you have a bad CCV tube it can cause of host of issues that will make them replace all kinds of parts you dont need to.

Oh and PLEASE LEAVE YOUR ENGINE COVER OFF.

nearly all of the problems that plague the 50i are due to heat build-up and the engine cover is not helping. You don't need that silly thing, THROW IT AWAY

and if you ever decide you want to work on it yourself, let me know. I have designed my own catch-can setup the does away with most of those BS CCV tubes and increases the Crankcase vacuum to a proper level for increased performance. I can help if you want to tackle it yourself. FYI, if you replace the CCV tubes yourself, it will only cost you 150 dollars in parts...you can save a TON if you do it yourself.

Ive got 144,000 miles on mine, you can too
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Last edited by Sophisticated Redneck; 04-24-2019 at 05:11 PM.
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Old 04-24-2019, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck View Post
Get your CCV tubes replaced and do your plugs but dont do anything else yet. I have a 50i and if you have a bad CCV tube it can cause of host of issues that will make them replace all kinds of parts you dont need to.

Oh and PLEASE LEAVE YOUR ENGINE COVER OFF.

nearly all of the problems that plague the 50i are due to heat build-up and the engine cover is not helping. You don't need that silly thing, THROW IT AWAY

and if you ever decide you want to work on it yourself, let me know. I have designed my own catch-can setup the does away with most of those BS CCV tubes and increases the Crankcase vacuum to a proper level for increased performance. I can help if you want to tackle it yourself. FYI, if you replace the CCV tubes yourself, it will only cost you 150 dollars in parts...you can save a TON if you do it yourself.

Ive got 144,000 miles on mine, you can too
Thanks!
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