Hello-Potential New Owner/My Take on the X5d with a few questions

[F150 Duke]

I'll have to go back and try the sport mode...didn't see it on the 09 but must not have been paying attention.

I looked at the new Touareg and wow is that compelling. All the options, better fuel economy, higher towing and better price. It looks nice but I’m not completely enthralled with the style or look.

I found the gov site for the tax credits on diesels. It still lists the ’11 diesel but doesn’t have any notes saying it’s phased out. I think it is though.
http://www.irs.gov/businesses/article/0,,id=225054,00.html


I googled the X5 towing capabilities and basically the i6, Diesel and V8 all have a 6,000lb towing capacity. I’d be under that, but close with 5,000lbs. The new i6 would be a lot less capable then my current truck at towing, which stinks and means I’d have to take it a lot easier, but it’d have better gas mileage when not towing and not have some of the new nuances of the diesel that I’m not yet used to.

[jackie]

I love jeeps but if you are looking for good customer service, look somewhere else. I own a Jeep and have owned 3 in my life but my rubicon is the last one I will buy new. I got really fed up the last time I went in for service on a warranty issue. The SA and managers are just rude and have no idea about customer service. In fact, I have never received good service from any of the Jeep dealerships. I am a new X5 owner and let me tell you that the service at BMW is a level above.

[SJCFlyer]

Duke,
It looks like you've received some really great comments that should help with your data analysis. The only aspect missing is someone that tows with an X5. Maybe you can do a search for those talking about tow hitches and PM some of the responders for a personal response? That sounds like the only missing link.

[SJCFlyer]

Originally Posted by F150 Duke

I'll have to go back and try the sport mode...didn't see it on the 09 but must not have been paying attention.

I looked at the new Touareg and wow is that compelling. All the options, better fuel economy, higher towing and better price. It looks nice but I’m not completely enthralled with the style or look.

Again, remember new model "1st Year" syndrome applies too.

[F150 Duke]

Originally Posted by SJCFlyer

Again, remember new model "1st Year" syndrome applies too.

Good point, I am also going to go back to the towing threads and read for someone who might have a 6 and ask about their experiences.


The Jeep customer service and dealer experience is also something I'm weighting. That is a big nusiance on my F150 and my wife's Nissan Altima. Just not up to spec with luxury brands (service loaner, etc). I had two Infiniti vehicles before these and the dealer experience was always fantastic.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by F150 Duke

I googled the X5 towing capabilities and basically the i6, Diesel and V8 all have a 6,000lb towing capacity. I’d be under that, but close with 5,000lbs. The new i6 would be a lot less capable then my current truck at towing, which stinks and means I’d have to take it a lot easier, but it’d have better gas mileage when not towing and not have some of the new nuances of the diesel that I’m not yet used to.

The BMW towing limits are due to the chassis, and not the engine power. The X5 doesn't have a frame, it is a unibody, so that is the limiting factor. There used to be a difference due to transmissions as well (5 speed auto had a lower towing limit on the 3.0) but that is gone now with the new transmissions.

I haven't towed with an E70. I did tow quite a bit with an E53 (3.0, 225 hp), and still tow with an E83 (3.0si, 260 hp). I also have a 535 with essentially the same engine as the 35i, but I haven't towed with it.

I don't think there is any concern over towing with the 35i. It will tow better than the naturally aspirated V8 used to, due to the increased torque at low rpm. 5000 lbs is not pushing it, I towed 4000-4500 lbs with the E53 3.0 at 225 hp, and it was fine. It depends on how many mountain passes you are pulling the trailer over, but for local boat launching I don't see a downside with 225 hp, and you would have 300 hp plus a much better torque curve.

Friends and family with Ford, GM and Dodge diesel pickups, particularly the most recent models, get used to that kind of acceleration when towing. Yes, it will be different with the X5, but towing shouldn't be a drag racing activity anyway. Just my $0.02.

[F150 Duke]

Originally Posted by JCL

The BMW towing limits are due to the chassis, and not the engine power. The X5 doesn't have a frame, it is a unibody, so that is the limiting factor. There used to be a difference due to transmissions as well (5 speed auto had a lower towing limit on the 3.0) but that is gone now with the new transmissions.

I haven't towed with an E70. I did tow quite a bit with an E53 (3.0, 225 hp), and still tow with an E83 (3.0si, 260 hp). I also have a 535 with essentially the same engine as the 35i, but I haven't towed with it.

I don't think there is any concern over towing with the 35i. It will tow better than the naturally aspirated V8 used to, due to the increased torque at low rpm. 5000 lbs is not pushing it, I towed 4000-4500 lbs with the E53 3.0 at 225 hp, and it was fine. It depends on how many mountain passes you are pulling the trailer over, but for local boat launching I don't see a downside with 225 hp, and you would have 300 hp plus a much better torque curve.

Friends and family with Ford, GM and Dodge diesel pickups, particularly the most recent models, get used to that kind of acceleration when towing. Yes, it will be different with the X5, but towing shouldn't be a drag racing activity anyway. Just my $0.02.

Yeah I just finished about 15 more threads on towing and feeling better. I'm now leaning towards a new i6 or diesel. I'm leaning more towards the diesel since there is the $3,500 eco credit. $3,500 in the pocket would be nice, plus it has more torque. I priced one out the way I wanted (prem, tech, ipod connection, cold weather, prem sound, comfort access, heated rear seats, roof rails, running boards, auto high beams, all weather floor mats) and got a negotiated price of $56,295 after the eco credit. Not too shabby.

[Lawfarm]

The GC is also a unibody, so there isn't a frame/durability/towing strength difference there.

You can run the numbers analysis all day long. Before I bought my 35d, I analyzed everything you did as well, and included the GC in my analysis. I also looked at Audi, Lexus, Mercedes, Toyota, Porsche, Acura, Honda, GMC, Volkswagen, and a passel of used cars. I ended up finding that there were 6-7 different vehicles that 'checked all of the boxes' for capability, fuel economy, seating, towing, and objective criteria. Then, I drove all of them, and couldn't bring myself to buy anything other than the X5.

As far as towing with the diesel, it will to anything that you'd feel comfortable pulling with this short of a wheelbase. Grunt is never the issue. She's nice and stable for such a short SUV, but you won't confuse it with a long wheelbase, extended cab pickup.

[HaveADay]

I looked pretty hard at the Touareg before purchasing my 2011 X5 35i Premium. It's a really nice truck. I was pretty much only looking at the diesel in the Touareg. Incidentally, and I realize this may not be a popular opinion on a BMW site, I think VW/Audi group produces a better diesel engine. I was surprised that the noise level from the X5d was higher than the Touareg, which is the exact opposite of what I've experienced with gas engines.

So basically I compared the Touareg TDI Exec to first an X5 35d and then 35i. Comparing diesel to diesel the engine seemed more refined in the VW. Comparing Nav systems the VW system was clearly head and shoulders above the BMW. Comparing driving dynamics, materials quality, design and most other factors the BMW was somewhere between a little better on some items and an absolute landslide on others.

One of the other factors that loomed large for me was dealer experience. I went and drove a Touareg in the northern suburbs of Chicago and on my way back into the city stopped and drove an X5. The VW dealer mentioned they had coffee, it was a bunn machine with what appeared to be day old coffee in it with a canister of non-dairy creamer and a canister of sugar. The BMW dealer has a cafe with a barrista, pastries, sandwiches, etc. The comparison was hard to make because there basically wasn't one. Coffee is a silly example but it was completely emblematic of the contrast between the two. If I had to wait for service at the VW dealer I would have felt like i was in the waiting room of a Jiffy Lube. If I went to the BMW dealer with the cafe, tables, couches, business center, etc I would have felt like I was nearly at home (though at home I don't have a barrista.)

Thus far I've owned four VWs (two jettas, a passat and a Touareg) and seven BMWS (an e39 540, M5 and 525, an e46 325, e90 335xi, e60 535xi and the e70 X5.) I think that both companies build very nice cars. I think for the money VW makes one of the nicest interiors in the business. I also know that every time I've gone from a VW to a BMW it just sort of becomes apparent why BMW is making cars that stretch past six figures and VW is mostly making cars under $50k. One thing about the Touareg that was going to be a little hard for me to swallow was the fact that it was VW's most expensive vehicle by a fairly wide margin. I've always wondered a little about why VW pushes the Touareg up so high in pricing. Don't they have Audi for that?

I don't think you'd go wrong with a Touareg but I also have a feeling that a quick back to back drive of the two cars might cure you of thinking the Touareg is real competition for an X5, it did for me.

Ben

[kck7]

Originally Posted by HaveADay

I looked pretty hard at the Touareg before purchasing my 2011 X5 35i Premium. It's a really nice truck. I was pretty much only looking at the diesel in the Touareg. Incidentally, and I realize this may not be a popular opinion on a BMW site, I think VW/Audi group produces a better diesel engine. I was surprised that the noise level from the X5d was higher than the Touareg, which is the exact opposite of what I've experienced with gas engines.

So basically I compared the Touareg TDI Exec to first an X5 35d and then 35i. Comparing diesel to diesel the engine seemed more refined in the VW. Comparing Nav systems the VW system was clearly head and shoulders above the BMW. Comparing driving dynamics, materials quality, design and most other factors the BMW was somewhere between a little better on some items and an absolute landslide on others.

One of the other factors that loomed large for me was dealer experience. I went and drove a Touareg in the northern suburbs of Chicago and on my way back into the city stopped and drove an X5. The VW dealer mentioned they had coffee, it was a bunn machine with what appeared to be day old coffee in it with a canister of non-dairy creamer and a canister of sugar. The BMW dealer has a cafe with a barrista, pastries, sandwiches, etc. The comparison was hard to make because there basically wasn't one. Coffee is a silly example but it was completely emblematic of the contrast between the two. If I had to wait for service at the VW dealer I would have felt like i was in the waiting room of a Jiffy Lube. If I went to the BMW dealer with the cafe, tables, couches, business center, etc I would have felt like I was nearly at home (though at home I don't have a barrista.)

Thus far I've owned four VWs (two jettas, a passat and a Touareg) and seven BMWS (an e39 540, M5 and 525, an e46 325, e90 335xi, e60 535xi and the e70 X5.) I think that both companies build very nice cars. I think for the money VW makes one of the nicest interiors in the business. I also know that every time I've gone from a VW to a BMW it just sort of becomes apparent why BMW is making cars that stretch past six figures and VW is mostly making cars under $50k. One thing about the Touareg that was going to be a little hard for me to swallow was the fact that it was VW's most expensive vehicle by a fairly wide margin. I've always wondered a little about why VW pushes the Touareg up so high in pricing. Don't they have Audi for that?

I don't think you'd go wrong with a Touareg but I also have a feeling that a quick back to back drive of the two cars might cure you of thinking the Touareg is real competition for an X5, it did for me.

Ben

Well said and very close to the same analysis I did (except my BMW dealer doesn't have sandwiches )

A well-decked out Touareg is 2x the price of VW's most expensive sedan (give or take), the CC.

A well-decked out X5 (non-M) is perhaps half the price of BMW's most expensive sedan. Using admittedly simplistic math, that makes the BMW SUV four times the value, relative to the lineup (I don't think anyone will buy this exact argument, but it should make you pause for thought).

Why is it, indeed, that the Touareg is such a loftily priced vehicle in VW's lineup? For one thing, it seems to have been co-developed with the Cayenne. Pricing the T at say $35k would require serious decontenting or disaster to Cayenne sales. I shopped both, and the delta today between the two is about right for what you get. But cut the T by $10k and suddenly it's a whole different game.

Another factor is the whole 'German SUV' thing. A Q5 can be what, high 40s? Maybe 50k? That's a smaller vehicle than the T, and built by the same company! VW left itself no room to price the T at any other point.