Hello-Potential New Owner/My Take on the X5d with a few questions

[F150 Duke]

Hello All,

I have been reading through the forums the past few weeks and really leveraging the search tool. I wanted to start by thanking each of you for posting such helpful information about the X5. I am looking to replace my 2005 F150 Lariat 4x4 supercrew (300HP/365lb)…at least the X5 designation will end up being a bit shorter. J Right now I’m stuck between a few X5 options:

Used ’08, ‘09, ‘10 X5 4.8i (350HP/350lb)
Pros:
§ Even regular seats are more comfortable
§ Styling/fit and finish of a BMW
§ Assumption: More instantaneous power when hitting pedal
§ ’10 has new iDrive
§ Used allows for lower price but still including feature set I want
Cons:
§ Potential to buy someone else’s problem
§ Fully loaded is more expensive and harder to find. Giving up auto cruise, blind spot warning, cooled seats, remote start and in most instances larger rims vs Jeep
§ Gas mileage avg when not towing will be poor (ex. 15 mpg)
§ ’08 and ’09 iDrive is a bit frustrating

Used ’09, ‘10 X5d (265HP/425lb)
Pros:
§ Even regular seats are more comfortable
§ Styling
Cons :
§ Potential to buy someone else’s problem
§ Fully loaded is more expensive and harder to find. Giving up auto cruise, blind spot warning, cooled seats, remote start and in most instances larger rims vs Jeep
§ Gas mileage avg when not towing will be poor (ex. 15 mpg)
§ Vibration at a stand still
§ Bit noisy at stand still

New ’11 X5 v6 (300HP/300lb)
Pros:
§ Even regular seats are more comfortable
§ Styling
§ Full New vehicle warranty
§ Better gas mileage when not towing
Cons:
§ Not as powerful as other options for towing the boat
§ Gets pricy when adding features (Prem, Convenience Access, Cold Weather, Nav, Rear Heated Seats)
§ Fully loaded is more expensive and harder to find. Giving up auto cruise, blind spot warning, cooled seats, remote start and in most instances larger rims vs Jeep

New ’11 Jeep GC Overland V8 (365HP/390lb)
Pros:
§ New vehicle with warranty
§ Significant number of standard features (ex. Auto cruise control, blind spot warning, backup camera, auto wipers, heated/cooled seats, heated steering wheel, pano roof, 20 inch rims, auto tailgate, keyless entry with push button start, remote start, nav)
Cons:
§ Gas mileage avg when not towing will be poor (ex. 15 mpg)
§ Stylish and quality seems well improved, but something about sitting in it doesn’t feel as “special” as a BMW
§ Seat comfort was adequate but nowhere near as good as a basic BMW seat


This new vehicle will serve two functions, the first being my daily commuter during the winter months (summer months I drive my ’11 GT500) and then as a tow vehicle for my 23 foot boat. The boat and trailer weight in at 4,500 lbs and then I figure another 500 lbs for gas and gear for a total of 5,000 lbs. I tow the boat about 1-2 times a week in the summer months on a 20 minute drive to the lake. I recapped my take (see below) on the 2009 X5d I test drove this weekend.

In my search there has been some information that I’m unable to find. Has anyone tried to tow with the new ’11 X5 v6 that is more powerful now. I really like the looks of the new ’11 body but the fact they are newer puts them out of my price range with the exception of the v6. The diesel and v8 when equipped with what I’m looking for (prem, cold weather, convenience entry) get a bit too pricey ($55k+). Also, what is everyone’s take on the iDrive between ’09 and ’10? Did you really find the screen resolution, revision of menu structure, and extra buttons to be a big benefit? I’m pretty tech savy and I’ll have to say that I wasn’t able to quickly pick-up the ’09 test drive vehicle’s iDrive system in the 5 minutes I played with it. More so just got frustrated and moved on.


My Take - 2009 X5d Test Drive
I recently test drove a 2009 X5d and was impressed by the ride quality (18 inch rims probably the factor) and the acceleration once going. It was the “lag” or “delay” in starting from a stop that was a bit different. I attribute this to it being a diesel and my being used to instantly having a gas engine which jumps forward at the first touch of the accelerator. The RPMs seemed to soar up quickly in comparison to the size of the tach, but once again this is because it was a diesel and 2,000 RPMs is higher for a diesel that per say on my V8 truck.

While I was surprised by how quiet the diesel was, I was disappointed that I could feel vibration going through the X5 doors when at a stop at a light. There was a faint diesel sound that made the engine louder than my gas V8 but the sound wasn’t too bad. Once driving through it was very quiet and the vibration went away completely. I was very impressed with the potential for gas mileage too. Even though diesel is 40 cents more per gallon then 87 octane here in MN, I’d still be saving money on fuel to the tune of $10 per fill-up. (ex. 20 gallon tank in Jeep [avg. 15mpg] and BMW [avg. 20mpg]. BMW fill-up is $8 more for tank but can get me 100 more miles, which would be another $18 in the Jeep.) This particular model had everything I was looking for (Prem, cold weather, rear seat temp, Nav) with the exception of the convenience access feature. I cannot believe a BMW can be made without this feature. Regardless of features, I found the old iDrive system very hard to quickly get through. I’m sure it may get easier with time but I can see how the new system (’10 onwards) is at least a little easier with a few buttons by the knob.

[SJCFlyer]

Your analysis seems complete - the question is how much weight you put on each point of the critera or yardstick points you are using.

A couple of things to add to your consideration.
1) Custom Built X5's can be done very quickly - 4 weeks, so you can create exactly the vehicle you want.
2) While I don't tow with my X5 diesel, I know others that do and they say it's an excellent set up, especially with all that "load moving" torque that's immediately available.
3) 1st Year Model Jeep -- if I'm correct, the "teething pains" of a first year model - especially one that was designed as the company was severing it's corporate relationship with Mercedes, may be a strong consideration. The current X5 was just freshened but isn't in the "first year" syndrome.
4) Maintenance - the BMW will be extensively covered (including things like wipers) for all maintenance, while the Jeep will not.

[JasonG]

X5d unloaded gas mileage is 19/26 or approx 22mpg combined (you stated 15 above)....
I dont see vibration as an issue at stop...may have been the particular used one you were driving (granted i also drive a Dodge Cummins so i could be a little less sensative)...noise not an issue at all with me or my wife.
Re Lag, takes a while to learn to drive a diesel...not an issue afterward...smooth progressivly more throttle avoids lag vs. instant throttle to the % you want...hard to explain, but i own two diesels and lag is not an issue
I think all configs will tow 4500w/o issue (V8, D or 11 6cyl - it's an inline 6 by the way...not v6)....
New D prices are pretty good when you take into account the $3500 Diesel Credit....try that in your cost calc if you havent
Any of them will kick the tar out of a pickup truck in day to day driving / fun...

Good luck, looks like you've done your homework, sure you will make a good choice.....

[bigx5er]

I've owned the E70 in the diesel, old six, and current 35i.

I love the 35i. Totally different vehicle than the 2010 normal six was. I also like the updated look and iDrive. All well worth it in my opinion. Put the 35i in the tranny sport mode and the thing is amazing.

I'm not a diesel guy, the idle rattle and lag didn't work for me. But the diesel is also a great option and I respect those who like it. Completely personal preference.

The new Jeep looks nice (as does the Explorer). I'm going to drive both soon (love driving new cars). Jeep scares me a bit being first year and a radical redesign. Still great to see competition to keep BMW honest.

[F150 Duke]

Originally Posted by SJCFlyer

Your analysis seems complete - the question is how much weight you put on each point of the critera or yardstick points you are using.

A couple of things to add to your consideration.
1) Custom Built X5's can be done very quickly - 4 weeks, so you can create exactly the vehicle you want.
2) While I don't tow with my X5 diesel, I know others that do and they say it's an excellent set up, especially with all that "load moving" torque that's immediately available.
3) 1st Year Model Jeep -- if I'm correct, the "teething pains" of a first year model - especially one that was designed as the company was severing it's corporate relationship with Mercedes, may be a strong consideration. The current X5 was just freshened but isn't in the "first year" syndrome.
4) Maintenance - the BMW will be extensively covered (including things like wipers) for all maintenance, while the Jeep will not.

You're a very smart man...or women. That is exactly the next step, a weighted scoring of the potential solutions (I live/work for analysis of data). All of your points are very accurate and not captured in my summary above. I am nervous about the first year of the jeep. Following it on jeepgarage dot org has shown that first couple months of production (till December) appear to have sporadic but farely frequent bad torque converters which Jeep is replacing now. I know everyone has these growing pains, luxury or not. You're right though that the X5 already experienced this.

I'm currently giving the BMW X5 TCO a $500/yr for four year credit for the free maintenance. Though that 4 years only happens if I buy new. The up side to used is that I won't have the depreciation hit of the new vehicle, though ordering it exactly how I'd like it would be very nice. That may come at a $5k premium.

[F150 Duke]

Originally Posted by JasonG

X5d unloaded gas mileage is 19/26 or approx 22mpg combined (you stated 15 above)....
I dont see vibration as an issue at stop...may have been the particular used one you were driving (granted i also drive a Dodge Cummins so i could be a little less sensative)...noise not an issue at all with me or my wife.
Re Lag, takes a while to learn to drive a diesel...not an issue afterward...smooth progressivly more throttle avoids lag vs. instant throttle to the % you want...hard to explain, but i own two diesels and lag is not an issue
I think all configs will tow 4500w/o issue (V8, D or 11 6cyl - it's an inline 6 by the way...not v6)....
New D prices are pretty good when you take into account the $3500 Diesel Credit....try that in your cost calc if you havent
Any of them will kick the tar out of a pickup truck in day to day driving / fun...

Good luck, looks like you've done your homework, sure you will make a good choice.....

Typo on my behalf on the gase mileage, I meant 20 as I was being pessimistic with the avg, much as I was doing with the other avg options. I thought I read the tax credit wasn't going to be available for '11? Point noted on the inline vs V.

My worry on the inline six is that I'll have a 5,000 lb towing load and then also have 2 people in the vehicle plus gear. While that may still be under spec, it's pushing the limit and won't be able to move it as readily as the 8 or diesel. Also not sure if the inline 6 can/will have the load leveling that I thought was standard in the diesel and 8.

[F150 Duke]

Originally Posted by bigx5er

I've owned the E70 in the diesel, old six, and current 35i.

I love the 35i. Totally different vehicle than the 2010 normal six was. I also like the updated look and iDrive. All well worth it in my opinion. Put the 35i in the tranny sport mode and the thing is amazing.

I'm not a diesel guy, the idle rattle and lag didn't work for me. But the diesel is also a great option and I respect those who like it. Completely personal preference.

The new Jeep looks nice (as does the Explorer). I'm going to drive both soon (love driving new cars). Jeep scares me a bit being first year and a radical redesign. Still great to see competition to keep BMW honest.

Agreed, the competition is best for all of us, owners, aspiring and the others. While the Jeep has all the features and more of the BMW for a significant sum less, sometimes the sum of the parts does not always equal the whole. Just have to figure out the personal preference and benefit of the whole.

[JasonG]

Originally Posted by F150 Duke

Typo on my behalf on the gase mileage, I meant 20 as I was being pessimistic with the avg, much as I was doing with the other avg options. I thought I read the tax credit wasn't going to be available for '11? Point noted on the inline vs V.

My worry on the inline six is that I'll have a 5,000 lb towing load and then also have 2 people in the vehicle plus gear. While that may still be under spec, it's pushing the limit and won't be able to move it as readily as the 8 or diesel. Also not sure if the inline 6 can/will have the load leveling that I thought was standard in the diesel and 8.

Tax Credit of $1800 is gone (govt program), but BMW has a $3500 Diesel Credit (see leasing options on bmwusa on the x35d)....so that's still available....i prefer a margin when towing so 4500 vs. 5k limit is definately close...my truck tows 16k so i dont use the x5 for such tasks....someone should chime in here on the towing ability of an x5...

[JasonG]

Originally Posted by bigx5er

I'm not a diesel guy, the idle rattle and lag didn't work for me. But the diesel is also a great option and I respect those who like it. Completely personal preference.

Yeah, not for everyone for sure...and the new 35i has a very nice torque curve that closes the gap in city driving vs. the previous 6cyl....i just like torque/power w/o having to rev...the modern BMW gassers are excellent/much better in that regard...i would have considered the new 35i given the motor/8spd/perf/mileage...but with the pre new year deals on the diesel and being partial to them, didnt have much choice.

[Alan Smithee]

The new Jeep GC is a very nice vehicle. I test drove one before getting my X5d, and later had one as a rental. Very solid, German feel; clear evidence of partnership with Mercedes. And good value. But I've had Jeeps before, and I don't think they have come far from a reliability standpoint (not that BMWs are the most reliable).

A note on your experience with lag in the X5d. Be aware that it will start in 2nd gear if you are not in 'sport' mode, and not heavy on the throttle off the line. When it starts in 1st, there is no noticeable turbo lag.

That said, if you are looking for an SUV with German feel that can tow, also check out the new Touareg diesel. It has a much higher tow rating than the X5 (7,700lbs?), with comparable power and better fuel economy due to its more modern transmission (8 speed, I believe). Slightly more bang for the buck as well in terms of features in the price range you are looking for. That would be my choice over a used X5.