Dreaded N62 (4.8i)Coolant Leak - Merry Christmas

[clinkinfo]

Originally Posted by cgrosse

bryantempio:

BMW is cutting edge... not a Toyoto appliance. Yup you gotta spend money to fix the things that break but to me BMW whole experience is worth it. Sure $10K to fix a coolant leak is CRAZY...

Sorry, to drag up an old thread but I get so sick of reading this misinformed marketing crap. BMW is a car manufacturer. They make cars with the same heating, cooling, lubrication, all the systems you need to make a car work.

They are not magic or "cutting edge" in most of their applications. They just make VERY poor design choices and use inferior materials in many applications. They have a history of systemic failures of components and systems (transmissions in the X3, door handles on many models, sunroofs across all pano models, etc). They do not do a good job with their engineering and manufacturing for long term reliability.

I hate to burst your bubble, but you're just repeating what a salesperson or brochure is telling you. Grab some tools and start disassembling, and you will quickly find all the same components that make that Chevy run too.

[blue dragon]

So the components are the same quality? Same level of ethics? GM? the company that has let several people die to save pennies on an ignition switch. You aren't bursting anyone's bubble. Not saying BMWs don't have issues, but the cars clearly aren't built to the same price point as Chevy in terms of engineering and cost constraints

[gregg3gs]

Guys, let's stay on point.
Here is a Great Link (Shameless Self Promotion) to a decent write up on how to fix an issues that should not be an issue.

http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...-n62-4-8l.html

[clinkinfo]

Originally Posted by blue dragon

So the components are the same quality? Same level of ethics? GM? the company that has let several people die to save pennies on an ignition switch. You aren't bursting anyone's bubble. Not saying BMWs don't have issues, but the cars clearly aren't built to the same price point as Chevy in terms of engineering and cost constraints

You're kidding right? A loaded tahoe is in the same price range as an X5. And as for safety, go read about the x3 transmission problems sticking people in oncoming traffic and their dealings with BMW. Go read about disabling engine oil leaks in the X5 4.8 and their dealings with BMW. Go read about collapsing air suspension and their dealings with BMW.

You're right. GM's quality has probably been better then BMW's the last few years.

BMW has very serious quality issues and very fundamental design/manufacturing problems. Problems that strech across platforms with shared components. Problems they refuse to acknowlede exist and refuse to fix. They instead spend lots of money on marketing, and large numbers of people on the internet repeat that marketing. Implying their cars are designed with the precision and engineering of spacecraft (which those who do their own work know is untrue). Worse, they train people to "believe" their "engineering" is so advanced it requires tolerance and acceptance of lots of faults and problems. Faults and problems that the entire car industry fixed decades ago. Go read about all the people who can't open their doors or hoods because the handles and latches all break. Go read about people who loose all their coolant because BMW uses a brittle cheap plastic susceptible to thermal shock, in the engine compartment.

I don't know if their German heritage makes them too stubborn to admit and fix their issues, or if its profiteering. But there's something wrong with the brand I used to love.

[blue dragon]

Originally Posted by clinkinfo

You're right. GM's quality has probably been better then BMW's the last few years.

.

I stopped reading right there. Tell me about how many people have died from BMW's issues and BMW covered it up, show me the equivalent class action lawsuit over these deaths just like GM

GM, one of the most unethical companies, knowingly putting people's lives in danger to save pennies on a part. Its one thing to have an engineering problem, but its another to completely cover it up and lie about it. BMW stepped up with the rod bearing recall on my e46 M3 back in 2002, with the customer care package on the N63, with so many other warranty extensions for faulty parts or design issues.

When the headgasket gave out on my 1991 Chevrolet Beretta GTZ, GM told me to go pound sand, a known issue with that car. It was my first and last GM. I wouldn't touch the corvette with its know paint and body alignment issues. GM quality. What an oxymoron.

[clinkinfo]

Originally Posted by blue dragon

I stopped reading right there. Tell me about how many people have died from BMW's issues and BMW covered it up, show me the equivalent class action lawsuit over these deaths just like GM

GM, one of the most unethical companies, knowingly putting people's lives in danger to save pennies on a part. Its one thing to have an engineering problem, but its another to completely cover it up and lie about it. BMW stepped up with the rod bearing recall on my e46 M3 back in 2002, with the customer care package on the N63, with so many other warranty extensions for faulty parts or design issues.

When the headgasket gave out on my 1991 Chevrolet Beretta GTZ, GM told me to go pound sand, a known issue with that car. It was my first and last GM. I wouldn't touch the corvette with its know paint and body alignment issues. GM quality. What an oxymoron.

Look, you're entitled to whatever opinion you want, But you realize that's a 25 year old story, right? That's like me telling you that my 1991 3 series somehow represents something about my experience with BMW now. BMW and quality no longer go together in many opinions. We do our own work...we take the stuff apart...we see the crap decisions BMW makes.

I'm a mechanical engineer, so maybe my standards are higher. But I have 5 late model BMW's in the family currently. ALL of them have suffered serious issues and problems. ALL of them continue to suffer from issues and problems (hence my appearance in this thread about coolant leaks, again...), despite all appropriate maintainence (and then some). The X5 I'm in here reading about had it's engine rebuilt at 57k miles. Multiple engine seal failures, all considered normal by BMW despite being 7k miles and a couple months out of warranty at the time. And that's just one issue on that X5. All other vehicles have had catastrophic failures (sunroof failure, flooded the car, refused to be covered by BMW when less than a year out of warranty...central locking and alarm system on another. Failure of the main module...considered normal by BMW....complete I drive failure on another....considered normal, but BMW "graciously" offered a discount refurb main unit if I paid the dealership labor....door handles inoperable....hood latch won't open (check out my DIY on how to saw your hood open)....coolant everywhere on 4 of them over the last years....etc,etc,etc).

I'm sorry, but I've had many many BMW's for the last 25 years, loved them, still love driving them. But if this is the new BMW standard of quality, there's lots of other brands and consumer choices out there (thankfully). Because its not acceptable, and as consumers we need to demand more from them, not make ridiculous excuses for them. I'm not interested in arguing, you can think whatever you want. But, I've got enough experience with them to know what they really are, and what the new BMW is all about...A marketing and sales machine loosing interest in the quality that once helped make them so enjoyable.

Now I'm going back to find ideas on how to fix the newest X5 coolant leak filling the garage floor!

[blue dragon]

Hey, I can respect that you have a different opinion than me, my constraints are time, money and skill. If one is lacking, I'll pay someone else to do it. And I don't think it has anything to do with any of us being engineers though :p You're a mech eng, my undergrad is civ eng, we both know there are compromises and tradeoffs with any design.

I'm not saying there aren't issues, and sometimes BMW takes forever to fix them (e.g subframe tear out in the E36 was still present in the e46), but I would rather be driving a bimmer than a more mechanically reliable lexus. Another factor is resale value, I'm not going to lose my shirt owning or leasing a Cadillac, as much as I like the ATS or CTSV, their resale is horrible.

Good luck with your coolant leaks