Is this legit? A diesel X6 in the States?

[JCL]

Originally Posted by AlexK

"...if you'll actually read the C&D article

Originally Posted by AlexK

You keep repeating same thing based only on your personal assumptions...

As opposed to things written in Car and Driver and the Porsche USA web configurator?

[Fraser]

Originally Posted by AlexK

You keep repeating same thing based only on your personal assumptions...

No. This is what Porsche says in its own press info on the new Cayenne:


• "the new, active and extra-light all-wheel drive"

•"The two main reasons for choosing this technology were the reduction of weight and the wish to make the new Cayenne even more agile on the road."

• "the name of the game is lightweight engineering."

• "Indeed, the all-new, classy design of the new Cayenne makes the new generation even more clearly a member of Porsche’s family of sports cars."

• "Thanks to the combination of materials minimised in weight and changes in the concept of the overall vehicle"

• "But at the same time it almost goes without saying that the Cayenne offers all the offroad qualities required by the customer under normal conditions."


Note, the use of the words "normal conditions".

This is what Porsche said in its press info about the first-generation Cayenne:


• "robust when driving off the beaten track"

• "in the interest of outstanding offroad driving qualities"

• "The steering transmission with its variable transmission ratio and the differential are both well protected on top of the subframe, again helping to guarantee robust driving qualities off the beaten track"

• "To ensure robust strength even on the roughest surfaces, the lower track control arm and the tie-rod are both made of steel plate."

• "The special offroad level is for the most extreme offroad driving conditions"

• "This reduction gearbox comes with a gear ratio of 2.7:1 for even the most extreme offroad driving manoeuvres"

• "the Cayenne is a real offroad champion even in its basic trim"


It that doesn't convince you Porsche pulled a drastic change in design direction from Cayenne 1 to Cayenne 2, I don't know what will.[/B][/B]

[Fraser]

Originally Posted by AlexK

I'd like to see an independent, objective test showing that.


Why are you assuming that? According to BMW's own USA website, the weight of cheapest (and lightest) current E70 is 4960 lbs. According to Porsche's own USA website, the weight of cheapest (and lightest) current model of Cayenne with a comparable engine is 4475 lbs (even lighter without automatic transmission).

First point: No low-range gearing. No contest.

Second point: Not according to Porsche and BMW's Australian websites. The weights are in the same ballpark.

Third point: Read my previous post re Porsche's design direction with Cayenne 1 and 2.

[Fraser]

Originally Posted by AlexK

That's still baseless assumptions. I specifically asked for a proper comparison, preferably by some reputable magazine/blog, not an "armchair specialist".

According to AU's Porsche website, the Cayenne has Unladen weight (DIN) of 2030 kg. According to AU's BMW website the comparable model of X5 has weight of 2070 kg. Yes, the weight difference is smaller, however the fact that Cayenne weights less remains.

With regards the benefit of low-range gearing (a significant 2.7:1 in the case of the first-gen Cayenne), if you don't understand then obviously you have done little or no off-road driving.

As with regards weight, Cayenne 2 is 2030kg-2170kg DIN. Current X5 is 2070kg -2190kg. Hardly something to get excited about and far from the 375kg difference you have previously claimed.

And you still haven't addressed these claims from Porsche's own information:

This is what Porsche says in its own press info on the new Cayenne:


• "the new, active and extra-light all-wheel drive"

•"The two main reasons for choosing this technology were the reduction of weight and the wish to make the new Cayenne even more agile on the road."

• "the name of the game is lightweight engineering."

• "Indeed, the all-new, classy design of the new Cayenne makes the new generation even more clearly a member of Porsche’s family of sports cars."

• "Thanks to the combination of materials minimised in weight and changes in the concept of the overall vehicle"

• "But at the same time it almost goes without saying that the Cayenne offers all the offroad qualities required by the customer under normal conditions."


Note, the use of the words "normal conditions".

This is what Porsche said in its press info about the first-generation Cayenne:


• "robust when driving off the beaten track"

• "in the interest of outstanding offroad driving qualities"

• "The steering transmission with its variable transmission ratio and the differential are both well protected on top of the subframe, again helping to guarantee robust driving qualities off the beaten track"

• "To ensure robust strength even on the roughest surfaces, the lower track control arm and the tie-rod are both made of steel plate."

• "The special offroad level is for the most extreme offroad driving conditions"

• "This reduction gearbox comes with a gear ratio of 2.7:1 for even the most extreme offroad driving manoeuvres"

• "the Cayenne is a real offroad champion even in its basic trim"


It that doesn't convince you Porsche pulled a drastic change in design direction from Cayenne 1 to Cayenne 2, I don't know what will.[/B][/B]
Today 11:42 AM

[Fraser]

Originally Posted by AlexK

I don't know if you didn't read or simply did not understand, but I said it before in several posts - an independent, objective test comparing both old-gen Cayenne and similarly-equipped current-gen Cayenne.


I don't see any logical reason for Porsche to keep various off-road-specific features (such as fully locking differentials) and off-road-specific optional packages (as well as directly claiming that new-gen is as good off-road as previous-gen) if they "pulled a drastic change in design" as YOU claim. If what YOU claim was actually true, new Cayenne would be exactly similar to our current-gen X5 and GLK350: a fully automatic 4WD system with a simple "traction control off" button on a dashboard There's a specific section on USA's new Cayenne site labeled "Off Road" with 374 words in it, explaining in details the various systems and options designed for this type of usage, there are multiple sections in new Cayenne's user manual explaining the various off-road programs/modes and how they directly affect various subsystems (like automatic transmission gear selection/holding, the riding height of air suspension or the differential locks) and there are multiple pages in owner's manual providing basic guides for driving in a SPECIFIC off-road conditions (such as "Off-road driving on uphill gradients", "Off-road driving on downhill gradients", "Driving over humps", "Driving through water", "Driving on sand", "Off-road driving on track ruts", as well as general off-road driving advices). Why would they do all that if they "pulled a drastic change in design direction" and if the new Cayenne is "no more capable that something like an X5"? Please provide me with a logical answer instead of posting baseless assumptions again or trying to "interpret" the meaning of cherry-picked vague phrases of some random OUTDATED (and no longer valid) press releases

These quotes come from Porsche's own technical information provided to the media at the time of the release of the model in question. You need to read them again. They are very specific about the design intent of both vehicles.

The standard 4WD system on all of the new models bar the diesel and the hybrid is a single-range on-demand system that primarily drives the rear wheels, directing power to the front wheels when conditions dictate. The standard 4WD system on the original Cayenne was a dual range, full-time full-time system with a lockable centre differential. No matter had many options you add to the new model you cannot replicate this system.

BTW: The current X5 has a full-time 4WD system with a self-proportioning and self-locking centre differential that distributes power front to rear. In addition it has electronic traction control to take care of cross-axle control. The dashboard button is there to cancel the electronic stability control and to desensitise the electronic traction control.