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  #1  
Old 04-27-2009, 11:03 PM
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Please Help Nav Incorrect Position

I just bought a 2006 z4 3.0si with the MKIV nav system software version 4-1/70 using the 2006 map DVD. The navigation position is changing but it is usually 50 to 100 miles off from my current position. I took it to my local BMW dealer and they said that the Nav system was fine and that I just needed to buy the 2009 map DVD. I don't mind buying it if it will work but it seems that the DVD is not the problem. Why would the DVD cause this? Next chance I get I will check the GPS Almanac, GPS PDOP value, Signal Strength, and Wheel pulses. Any ideas and any help will be greatly appreciated. By the the car is still under warranty.
Thank You,
Neil
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  #2  
Old 04-29-2009, 10:52 AM
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Do the following

Quote:
Originally Posted by bns99121 View Post
I just bought a 2006 z4 3.0si with the MKIV nav system software version 4-1/70 using the 2006 map DVD. The navigation position is changing but it is usually 50 to 100 miles off from my current position. I took it to my local BMW dealer and they said that the Nav system was fine and that I just needed to buy the 2009 map DVD. I don't mind buying it if it will work but it seems that the DVD is not the problem. Why would the DVD cause this? Next chance I get I will check the GPS Almanac, GPS PDOP value, Signal Strength, and Wheel pulses. Any ideas and any help will be greatly appreciated. By the the car is still under warranty.
Thank You,
Neil
A DVD map CANNOT cause position errors of that magnitude!
If they did, BMW would have recalled all the maps and replaced them !!

First step: update software to current version. You have 4-1/70. Current ist 4-1/100. Always fixes a few bugs :-) Dealers won't upgrade unless you demand it. But you can do it yourself easily.

2nd step: check GPS status in theService Menu. Look at PDOP values - good positions have PDOP of <5. Look at satellite S/N values. You should see 3 or 4 satellites with S/N between 10 and 15 (higher is better). You should have 6 or 7 satellites being received at any one time. If you see all of satellites with S/N under 5, suspect that the antenna is weak / failing. Make sure of course that the antenna is not covered :-)

3rd step: check dead-reckoning signalling. Does the Direction show Backwards when in reverse, and forwards in all other gears? (req ign to be on). Do speed pulses vary with vehicle speed and show -ve in reverse? Does the gyro show 2500 +/-100 when sitting still, and less when turning left, more when turning right?

4th step: only now suspect map errors - but these are rare and certainly not 100 miles out!! If anything a map error might be less than 1/2 mile out.
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  #3  
Old 05-04-2009, 01:16 AM
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Similar problem - details enclosed

Thank you for this post.

I have an MKII.

I just updated my software to the most current version relevant to my unit. Worked fine.

My PDOP is <5. I have several satellites with S/N higher than 10. I am receiving 8 satellites.

Dead-reckoning signalling is working properly. Gyro is workin properly.

I compared my location coordinates with my friend's portable GPS and the system has me in the correct spot.

BUT..............

The triangle indicating my position does not move at all when I drive. It spins, but it does not move forward.

I am not placed properly on the map. Sometimes I am 5 miles away...sometimes elsewhere, although I am always in my city. I have owned the car since fall. It has had plenty of driving time to "find itself." Actually, I do have proof that the GPS knows my correct coordinates, so I can't explain this at all.

I can manually place myself on the map using the system's function for that. However, I am then "stuck" wherever I placed my position. I don't move; only rotate.

OCCASIONALLY (maybe every several weeks t best) the map randomly updates to my current, correct location. However, at no point does the triangle move with my car. It always stays static.

HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  #4  
Old 05-04-2009, 01:22 PM
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Try resetting it by unplugging it completely, waiting 10min, then reconnecting it.

Otherwise, seeing as the problem exists over multiple software versions, it sounds like a hardware fault.

You can try dismantling the nav to see if there is any obvious damage - eg: E38s often suffer water damage.
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  #5  
Old 05-04-2009, 01:29 PM
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Thank you for the reply.

I am cheating and usng your excellent forum even though I own an e39.

The one thing that I know is wrong is that my wheel sensor reads 0. I obviously need that fixed, and it is in my plans. However, would it really cause the whole system not to work at all?

I will try unplugging.
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  #6  
Old 05-04-2009, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mommy-of-4-kids View Post
Thank you for the reply.

I am cheating and usng your excellent forum even though I own an e39.

The one thing that I know is wrong is that my wheel sensor reads 0. I obviously need that fixed, and it is in my plans. However, would it really cause the whole system not to work at all?

I will try unplugging.
Well, that conflicts with your previous statement of "Dead-reckoning signalling is working properly. "

Your wheel sensor signal IS the problem. 100% certain.

Without a wheel sensor pulse, the Mk2 will not work.

Conclusion: Mk2 is 99% likely to be OK.
Find the missing wheel sensor pulse and fix it.

Does your Speedo still work?
Do you have an ABS-warning light on?
If you have speedo and/or ABS warning light problems, the fault is likely to be the actual wheel sensor.

If ABS and speedo are fine, then the fault is in the wire from ABS control unit to nav. Check nav connectors first (easy to access), then check ABS connector.

Post your chassis number and I'll advise what wire colours to focus on.
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  #7  
Old 05-04-2009, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiwiJochen View Post
Well, that conflicts with your previous statement of "Dead-reckoning signalling is working properly. "

Your wheel sensor signal IS the problem. 100% certain.

Without a wheel sensor pulse, the Mk2 will not work.

Conclusion: Mk2 is 99% likely to be OK.
Find the missing wheel sensor pulse and fix it.

Does your Speedo still work?
Do you have an ABS-warning light on?
If you have speedo and/or ABS warning light problems, the fault is likely to be the actual wheel sensor.

If ABS and speedo are fine, then the fault is in the wire from ABS control unit to nav. Check nav connectors first (easy to access), then check ABS connector.

Post your chassis number and I'll advise what wire colours to focus on.
When I got the car, the speedo was not working. The ABS light was not on, however.

I took it to my BMW guy and he fixed the speedo problem. It was a module and not a sensor. He said that at least one of the wheel sensors (I gathered that there are several?) looked to have been newly replaced.

Although the ABS light was not on and is not on, an error is still coming up in the computer diagnostics indicating that there is some sort of sensor issue. My mechanic thinks that someone messed with the dash ABS light...

My BMW mechanic is actually the best in my city, works on BMWs that are raced, and known nationally. But, he admits that nav systems are not his thing.

Should I just have him go through the trouble of individually testing all of the wheel sensors? It sounds costly and time consuming...
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  #8  
Old 05-04-2009, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mommy-of-4-kids View Post
When I got the car, the speedo was not working. The ABS light was not on, however.

I took it to my BMW guy and he fixed the speedo problem. It was a module and not a sensor. He said that at least one of the wheel sensors (I gathered that there are several?) looked to have been newly replaced.

Although the ABS light was not on and is not on, an error is still coming up in the computer diagnostics indicating that there is some sort of sensor issue. My mechanic thinks that someone messed with the dash ABS light...

My BMW mechanic is actually the best in my city, works on BMWs that are raced, and known nationally. But, he admits that nav systems are not his thing.

Should I just have him go through the trouble of individually testing all of the wheel sensors? It sounds costly and time consuming...
Fix the ABS!
It is a critical safety system!!

Each wheel has a wheel sensor,.
Each wheel sensor is connected to the ABS control unit
The ABS control unit then provides a speed pulse signal to the speedo, and another speed pulse signal to the nav computer
The speedo and nav computer do not necessarily use the same wheel signals (I could look it up more exactly if I new more about your car - post your chassis number)

Example: if the car is a 2000 E38, then it uses the wheel pulses from both front wheels (left and right).
These signals come directly from the ABS control unit.
The ABS control unit also connects to the warning light on the dash with one wire - so the wire has likely been cut to disable the ABS warning light.
But like I said - post your chassis number and I'll give you detailed fault finding instructions.


To determine if the ABS unit is fine, connect the BMW diagnostic computer and read out the faults inside the ABS control unit - if any wheel sensors are faulty, it will tell you. Quickly and easily.

And if anyone has messed with the ABS light, then fix it!
In almost every country in the world, the car will not pass a safety check if the ABS has been deliberately sabotaged to disactivate the warning light.

Last edited by KiwiJochen; 05-04-2009 at 02:51 PM.
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  #9  
Old 05-04-2009, 02:52 PM
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I own an e39.

It is a 1999 528iT.

The work was done last fall and my memory is horrible, so forgive me. But, it must have been the ABS module that was replaced. Is there such a thing as a speed control module or something like that? All I know is that it was costly...
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  #10  
Old 05-04-2009, 03:16 PM
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OK, a 1999 US E39 uses the following speed pulses:

Front left-wheel: DFAVL signal, yellow/red wire
Front right wheel: DFAVR signal, yellow/white wire

Nav:
DFAVL pin 10 of X1312 (violet) connector
DFAVR pin 11 of X1312 (violet) connector

ABS control unit:
DFAVL: pin 35
DFAVR: pin 18
The ABS control unit is attached to the ABS pump in the engine bay

The common fault with these ABS units is that internal solder connections break due to the heat and vibration and ageing inside the engine compartment.
As your car is 10 years old, this is likely to be the problem.
A good reliable solution is a brand new replacement ABS control unit.
Some companies in the USA fix the old ABS units and provide guarantees, but please do not attempt to fix it yourself unless you are an electronics engineer with experience!

ABS warning light wiring:
ABS unit, pin 17, grey/black wire, goes to...
...low cluster: pin 16 of X11175 (26p black connector)
...high cluster: pin 15 of X16 (18p black connector)
High cluster has the check-control display that shows eg light failure messages in plain text
Low cluster has the pictogram with a car picture showing doors open etc.

Print out the above and go back to your BMW mechanic. He should readily be able to diagnose the problem.
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