Amen.

That goes for Israel. And for US (the United States as well as the pronoun).

Bring your jihad over to the promised land (America or Israel), and that big stick we carry and (swing so ever softly) will be brought down upon you from the heavens and split your head in two so that your blood may flow so that there will be PEACE and DEMOCRACY. (that's from MY prophet).

Democratic Terrorism you say? Perhaps, but it is better than the alternative......

All this fun and neither Eric nor I have posted a word...

They already have. Several times (In US: WTC x2, Pentagon, Somerset County PA, various AQ cells in the USA already caught. In Israel: essentially every damned day.)

I am still waiting for that proverbial stick to come down with more than a tap.

Not tossing aerosol cans into the campfire,
but here's a 5+ min blurb from YouTube...

The woman speaker has Ballz and, some
pretty reasonable opins. Wonder if
she got out of the studio, alive.
BR,mD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wPglHZQf-0

She's awesome...

Have to agree with almost all of what she's saying in this clip.

Now, if the American media would wise the f%*k up, and stop feeding us the raving lunatic avowed Hezbollah supporting Arab vs. the very articulate and calm Israeli IDF PR officer every night, we might get some discussion going instead of quick degeneration into accusation and heated argument. I wish they'd put more people like this woman in the clip in the "Arab" chair on CNN, CBS, MSNBC, etc. to show that not all arabs are Muslims, want to behead Americans, hate to wear Armani, etc.

JV

Unless I am misreading your quote (which I must be because it's the most ridiculous thing I've ever read.
The reasons the US entered the war was because of PEARL HARBOR.. We were attacked by Japan. Are you implying that the Jews fostered the attack on Pearl Harbor? --

Israel was not "born" and the jews did not "move in".. There have always been Jews in the land now called "Israel" for thousands of years. It was not a country before, it was a territory controlled by the Brits. The territory now known as Israel was sub divided into two "states" - The two states, Israel and Palestine. The Palestinins refused to accept a Jewish state and was thus not recognized by the UN. Essentially, they gave up the right to the land that would have been given to them.
The neighboring Arab states then attacked the country "recently named Israel" because they also did not want a Jewish state.
Israel occupied the West Bank and Gaza Strip in wars, were they defended themselves and it was territory that did not technically belong to the Palestinins as they refused the UN Accord that separated the region into two different areas.

Yes, it is true that Israel has crossed the line a few times and done some things in "DEFENSE" of it's borders and it's people. Some strikes have been preemptive, some have been retalitory. The attitude of the Holocaust Survivors and the Jewish response to the death of six million is simple... NEVER AGAIN... NEVER AGAIN will we not fight for our right to live, our right to a homeland, our right to not let our neighbors PUSH US into the sea. --

If you feel so bad for the Lebanese and Palestanians, do something.. Give them YOUR land. But if you or your brother or sister or mom or dad come near our land and try to push into the sea, we will retaliate with equal or greater force. If you don't like it, clean up your own terrorists..

We would love to live in harmony.. Just stop attacking us.

B


I was referring to ww1. If you weren't so busy trying to turn my comment into an offensive tactic you would have noticed that. I definitely don't want to push you or any other Jew into any thing. im just pointing out the facts.....as far as our own terrorists are concerned we "Serbs" took out 250 thousand terrorists over the last ten years of the Balkan wars and we would have cleaned the whole region if it wasn't for the Americans stopping us.....I guess the terrorist game can only be played if the Jews and the Americans have something to gain from it.....also the Armenian that was banned , I agree he crossed the line but I understand him ....I would love to see how you all would feel and what you'd have to say if you went trough what we went trough.....I'm a Serb there is no place on this planet I cant go and wear a t shirt with my flag, even our enemies respect us.....can you say the same??????

this is too long of a read for me but all i can say is along the lines of if you think Israel is terrorizing lebanon and the arabs F*$K you, take your head out of the sand and look around you, every nation in the middle east and nearly all over the world wants nothing more than to see Israel die. Well guess what its not going to happen. I was there 2 years ago and visited most of the cities that are now being bombed. What are they bombing? sure as hell not military posts. Not in Tzfat thats the most innocent city there. so if you think shooting at houses housing bombs and rockets is a bad thing well you've got another thing coming. No one likes the Jews and never did and to this day i dont understand why. I'm one myself and whoever said "I was referring to ww1. If you weren't so busy trying to turn my comment into an offensive tactic you would have noticed that. I definitely don't want to push you or any other Jew into any thing. im just pointing out the facts.....as far as our own terrorists are concerned we "Serbs" took out 250 thousand terrorists over the last ten years of the Balkan wars and we would have cleaned the whole region if it wasn't for the Americans stopping us.....I guess the terrorist game can only be played if the Jews and the Americans have something to gain from it.....also the Armenian that was banned , I agree he crossed the line but I understand him ....I would love to see how you all would feel and what you'd have to say if you went trough what we went trough.....I'm a Serb there is no place on this planet I cant go and wear a t shirt with my flag, even our enemies respect us.....can you say the same??????" you need to get your head checked and examined. you are complaining about what you went through? how about 5000 years of torture and escaping and running how about having some place on this earth as a safe heaven, how about not having to worry about walking the street with a Star of David or having the Israeli flag in your car, how about a place where you dont have to worry about swastikas being drawn on your front lawn. How about somewhere you wont be referred to as a dirty Jew or pig. and all we are asking for is a country no more in size than an oversized parking lot. we built it up made it beautiful made it a home where every Jew can go and feel happy. if you dont think we deserve that F($K you!!!

I appreciate all the comments from everyone here on the pro Israel and pro self defence. I'm just really foaming at the mouth at the few who have the balls to say we are terrorists

I'm going to break my political silence for one SINGLE post here, and make a few observations and comments...

I'm an American Jew, and have a few close Israeli friends, including my ex-girlfriend who served in the IDF. Most of her family lives back in Israel. In fact, her brother lives in Haifa where all the Hezbollah rockets have been coming into Israel.

The problem here is much more complicated than most Americans realize. Here in the United States, most of the public is in support of Israel, but what they do not realize is that the political climate in Israel is very split between conservatives and liberals -- very similar to the political climate in the United States. An observation my ex-girlfriend has made is that American Jews are more supportive of the Israeli government than are Israelis.

So what are the internal debates going on in Israel? Well, it is no secret that a lasting peace can be had if they really want it. But the question is "at what price?"

If you go back to the 1950s-1970s, Israel's biggest enemy was Egypt, and both Syria and Jordan were also major enemies. The big terrorist group then was the Muslim Brotherhood which was based in Egypt.

Well, in 1979 Egypt and Israel signed a peace treaty. Israel gave land back to Egypt, and in the 27 years since then, there has not been a single incident of violence or major hostility between the 2 countries.

In 1993, the same thing happened with respect to Jordan, and in the 13 years since then, no incidents. Keep in mind that Egypt and Jordan are not democracies -- perhaps Egypt is a very "limited" democracy, but Jordan still has a King. So "democracy" is not a necessary element to have peace. Perhaps someone should explain this to our President.

So peace can indeed be had....but are we willing to give away land for peace? That is the debate....

While most of the world looked at Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin as a hero and they gave him the Nobel Peace Prize, many Israeli conservatives were of the opinion that he sold them out by giving away land -- and that is still the opinion of many Israelis today. He is not considered a hero by many, and as we know he was assasinated not by Arabs, but by a radical right wing Israeli group.

I guess his dealings with Jordan and the PLO are viewed in a similar light to JFK's dealings with the Soviet Union regarding the Cuban Missle Crisis. Many Americans think he helped avoid a major crisis, but many conservatives think he was too soft on Communism.

So the problem here comes down to a conflict in religious ideology. While my ex-girlfriend is not that religious, she does believe that the bible clearly states what lands are part of Israel. For example, Sinai -- the land given back to Egypt in 1979 -- is part of what the bible says is Israel. And she, along with many Israelis, believes that Sinai should be part of Israel, even if Israel has to conquer that land. Same with Gaza, the West Bank (including Jerusalem), and many lands that are currently part of Lebenon, Syria, and Jordan. This sort of stuff is taught to Israeli children in school and they grow up believing that they have a God-given right to certain lands in the Middle East, most of which currently belong to other countries.

I don't have to go into the extremism and religious beliefs of many Muslims, as the woman in the video above clearly covered all of that. And of course, little Arab kids grow up exposed to just as much, or perhaps more, propoganda about the evil Jews.

I guess my point here is that religious beliefs do fuel both sides, not just the Arab side.

What needs to happen here in order for there to be peace, is you need to have more liberal (and less religious) leaders on both sides of the dispute. You had that in 1993, and I believe if Rabin had not been assasinated, you would have peace in the region today. And as for Arrafat, for years Israel complained that he was a terrorist, but what we see today is that he was probably the most liberal and least extreme Palestinean leader that you can hope for.

I used to hear people say "anyone would be better than him" (as a negotiating partner). Be careful what you wish for...you may just get it...(now you have Hamas and Hezbollah)

On a side note, the Muslim Brotherhood still does exist today. But their support among the Egyptian public is very small. They are seen by the Egyptian public as extremists, much the way the American public views American extremist groups like the Arian Army and the KKK.

You are always going to have extremist groups like Hezbollah, Hamas, and the KKK. These groups thrive on violence and war. The more violence and war there is, the more support such groups receive from the general public in their countries. The solution to dealing with such groups, is not to try to defeat them using force -- this only makes them heros and martyrs. The solution is to have peace. As history has shown, when there is peace, such groups quickly become very insignificant.

"THERE IS NO ROAD TO PEACE. PEACE IS THE ROAD." -- Mahatma Gandhi

Ok...that's all I have to say....carry on with the discussion... :thumbup: