Xoutpost.com - The War

Xoutpost.com (https://xoutpost.com/forums.php)

- The Lounge (https://xoutpost.com/off-topic/lounge/)

- - The War (https://xoutpost.com/off-topic/lounge/25661-war.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by pm_belo

:confused: We definitely don’t have the same history books… :rolleyes:

Do you have a point or just like the icons?

Quote:

Originally Posted by WagnerX5

Do you have a point or just like the icons?

just for you...
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Quote:

Originally Posted by WagnerX5

And apparently you are discounting who achieved what based on where the bulk of the troops were. The US forces still pulled into Berlin and could have removed Hitler before the Russians. This of course is directed to the populous that thinks "Russia" was the reason Hitler killed himself.

Hitler was dead by the time American troops entered Berlin. They were still 50 miles out when he killed himself. The Russians entered Berlin many days before the American troops did, and they were a few hundred yards away from Hitler when he killed himself. There are plenty of WWII timelines online.....look at one.

And yes, the key to winning the war was to dismantle the German armed forces. The Russians took out over 4 million German soldiers, while the American forces took out less than 10% that number. There were very few surrenders, as the German commanders were instructed to never surrender.

90% of the European war was fought on the Eastern Front. All the elite and experienced German soldiers were in the East. The Western front was mostly 12-16 year olds in divisions called known as "Hitlerjugend", or "Hitler Youth".

I said it before, US forces held up as political agreements with Stalin.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WagnerX5

Do you have a point or just like the icons?

I can't agree with you if you say that Allied Armies offensive was the key factor that decided the WW2 in Europe.
Yes the Allied Armies contribution to win WW2 in Europe was important but the Red Army offensive was the key factor that decided the war in Europe.

I agree with you If you say that the Allied Armies (US troops) win WW2 in Asia and the Pacific.:iagree:

Did the Russian army liberate anything but their own lands for the most part? The deciding factor was not the Russian Army but Hitlers move to occupy Russia in 1941.

Just for some reading:
http://www.pattonuncovered.com/html/war.html <-- US Army ordered to halt.
http://www.pattonhq.com/textfiles/resign.html

Quote:

Following Third Army's hard-fought capture of Kassel, western anchor of the Thuringen corridor, Patton was visited by a British general for whom a briefing was staged in Third Army's famed war room. Afterwards, the obviously impressed English visitor asked Patton, "When do you expect to be in Berlin?"

"I can't say. But I can get there in a very short time if permitted."

"General Eisenhower has invited me to dine with him in Berlin after it's taken," boasted the British general.

"That will be very nice," dryly responded Patton. "But one thing is certain: General Eisenhower won't get there unless I get there first--but you don't have to tell him I said that."

When halted on 3 April, to enable U.S. First and Ninth armies to come up on line with the Third, its trip-hammer tank spearheads held positions 20 miles from Leipzig, 30 miles from Dresden, and 10 miles from Czechoslovakia.

At a meeting with General Omar N. Bradley, 12th Army Croup commander, Patton asked, "When do you expect to contact the Russians?"

"That's still uncertain," replied Bradley.

"Just disconnect me with any telephone hookup with SHAEF," urged Patton, "and I'll contact the Russians for you in a few days."

"I'm sure you would," laughed Bradley, but it isn't as simple as that. I wish it were. A lot of high-level politics are involved."

On 17 April, Patton was again given his head and final mission: shift the axis of Third Army's main attack-southeast to gain contact with Soviet forces in the Danube valley, and seize the eastern portion of the so-called "National Redoubt."

That long-reported Nazi stronghold proved to be a myth. Captured documents confirmed that it had been planned, but Patton's crushing victory in the Palatinate, followed by his daring slash across the Rhine and shattering rupture of central Germany, had aborted the Hitler-Himmler scheme to fortify the Alpine region into a last stand bastion.

VE-day found Patton's command post at Regensburg on the Danube, almost in the middle of Third Army's 185-mile front, extending from Karlsbad in Czechoslovakia to the Enns River in central Austria.

The next day, a group of correspondents called on Patton for a press conference. One asked why Third Army had not occupied Prague. Reconnaissance units reached the Czech capital, but bad been withdrawn to Pilsen.

"I'll tell you why we didn't take Prague," said Patton. Tensing, the newsmen readied for a hot story. "We didn't take it," he continued blandly, "because I was ordered not to."

"Who gave that order?"

"Ask SHAEF," smiled Patton. No further questions were asked.

We have to pull out. Whether it is now, in one year, five year, never(to prove it was all for oil). Once we pull out, Iraq will rip itself apart from within. We went to Iraq based on whole bunch of BS premises. We demonstated an unforgivable ignorance of the countries' society, with its vast cultural, religious and ethnic differences. What we have now is an eye for an eye civil war. We cannot stop it. We do not know how to stop it. Asking Arab countries for help might not help since they are not that similar either. It is a very multifaceted part of the world- what we call Arab World.

The longer non arab troops stay in Iraq, the more of those troops and Iraquis are gonna get killed. Whoever says that pulling now does not do justice to over 3,000 US troops killed todate is being naive. The way we are going that number will doulble in no time with no visible progress in that coutry.

We, as a country, have messed up a big time. Current Iraqi government is IMPOTENT, even if it is democratically elected. We need to plead with Arab countries for their help in this war. But then we'll be giving up all the OIL.

You cannot change centuries and centuries of country's development with B-52s and thousand's of troop support.

Kent :iagree: . Eric, you really did a lot of research. :2thumbs:

Quote:

Originally Posted by WagnerX5

Did the Russian army liberate anything but their own lands for the most part? The deciding factor was not the Russian Army but Hitlers move to occupy Russia in 1941.

Is not important for me to know who won the war (it wasn’t me, I wasn’t there). My grandmother lived during the war, many times she tell me stories of those times. My wife’s family escape from Germany to Spain during WW2 and because Francisco Franco dictatorship they escape into Portugal.

The most important facts of WW2 (for me) are:

- 50,000,000 Casualties (Military and Civilian)
-A free world (for some of us…). Don’t tell that to the people that where stuck in the Eastern bloc for decades.

I think we must respect the people that died fighting for what they believed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KENT4.8IS

I would agree that we went in on BS and the simple military force will not win. I also would be of the same opinion that the Iraqi government is entirely useless.