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Quote:

Originally Posted by pm_belo

I think we must respect the people that died fighting for what they believed.

My grandfather was a diamond 4 Marine who fought at Iwo Jima. Had 2 uncles in the Marine corps (Vietnam) and 1 uncle who served two tours for the Army in Vietnam and a Great Uncle that served in WWII and Korea. I agree with your quoted comments and I don't believe any one debated that notion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WagnerX5

Did the Russian army liberate anything but their own lands for the most part?

Yes, they liberated 90% of the concentration camps, and many countries including Poland, Hungary, Austria, and the Baltic countries.

Yeah, they were great..when they wanted to be:
------
Poland
1944
Warsaw uprising by resistance Polish Home Army receives no
Soviet assistance, is crushed by Nazis.
1945
Red Army liberates Polish territories and establishes
communist-dominated coalition government.
1947
Communists consolidate political monopoly after rigged
elections.

Hungary
1945, Hungary became part of the Soviet area of influence and was appropriated into a communist state following a short period of democracy in 1946-1947. After 1948, Communist leader Mátyás Rákosi established a Stalinist rule in the country.

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-Line

xxx, what can I say. You are right. Maybe we should learn from the Canadians, we should just bend over and do nothing. -- Maybe we should learn French too!
And, I don't know how you "win" a war. There are no winners in war. Our objectives in entering Iraq were to oust Saddam. We did that. No more Saddam or his kids... They dead !!
So we were successful in that manner. We beat his army. Now we are fighting a different war in Iraq. We are no longer fighting the Iraq Army which we beat. We are fighting guerillas that had nothing to do with the war, rather they are the "POST WAR".
Matter of fact, I just thought of a good marketing idea. I don't think the war in Iraq should be called the war in Iraq anymore. It should be called, "The war against the people who hate democracy that is taking place on the soil of Iraq" ... Would that fit on a bumper sticker? EH ?

Ohhh but just in case your counting:
1) Won the Gulf War (Desert Storm/Shield)
2) Beat Saddam, his kids, his National Guard, his army.
2) Won the Cold War (how quickly you forget.)
3) Won WWI
4) Won WWII
-- And I wasn't quoting the civil war, I was quoting the Revolutionary War...But:
5) I am from the North, so technically, yes, I won the civil war too. :)
6) Didn't we have a two day war in Panama.. I think we won that one too.
7) We did win the war in Afghanistan, even if it was only temporary. We got rid of the Taliban. But what should we be fighting for there, a couple of unscathed rocks?

So XXX what's next? You going to tell us that we lost the War on Drugs as well?

B

Aside from Briton the whole significant world was against the war in Iraq. The war in Iraq is a disgrace not to mention illegal. Your administration is responsible for more death and destruction then Saddam could ever be. I'm not going to get into the hundreds of tons of depleted uranium your army dumped into Iraq or the weapons of mass destruction you all used. The only people that want you in Iraq are the puppet government you setup there. As far as your marketing idea I would never scar my x with a bumper sticker of any sort especially one that big. LOL...

1) You did such a good job you had to do it again...and still your not done your looking for a way out. (saving face)

2) That was a secondary objective. Your main objective were WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION or did you forget.

3) In my opinion both the US and Russia realized how stupid that was in the first place but you did win that.

4) I guess only the US participated in both ww1 and ww3.

5) ok

6) Who cares.

7) Wasn't the point of invading Afghanistan to get Osama?

And yes you are loosing the war on drugs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxx

And yes you are loosing the war on drugs.[/SIZE][/FONT]

I guess that depends on what side of the war you are rooting for...
<///////////////////>~~~~~~

Quote:

Originally Posted by WagnerX5

The Russians were there AFTER the US troops were in Germany on their way to Berlin. Truman wanted Stalin on the Allies side against, Japan. Stalin wouldn't commit without some perks, one being taking Berlin..the other Hiroshima.

Now you've changed your tune on Afghanistan and Iraq, nobody ever said the US was cost efficient in war time. Afghanistan was NEVER defined as lets go kill Bin Laden, that was just a portion of the effort. The goal was to remove the Taliban and instill a leadership more in line with the West. Goal achieved.

BTW, I'm not concerned with whether you like the US or not, just keep the facts straight.

Bulls..t... The Russians beat you to Berlin and after that the race was for control of northern Germany. I've changed no tune...the only time you can call the war in Afghanistan a success is when the government you put into power successfully controls the country without your help and get Osama. The same for Iraq. Until then you have done nothing.;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric5273

Hitler was dead by the time American troops entered Berlin. They were still 50 miles out when he killed himself. The Russians entered Berlin many days before the American troops did, and they were a few hundred yards away from Hitler when he killed himself.

So what you're saying is that the US forces moved much faster than the Russian ones. Cool.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WagnerX5

No argument here. But you obviously know your history, and I'm sure you know about the same crap that was done in many of the Western European countries that the US liberated. Italy and Greece come to mind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric5273

Yes, American troops did cross into Germany about a month before Russian troops did, but if you look at the map, you will see why:

http://www.ericandjoan.com/worldtrip...ny/map-ger.gif

Berlin is near the eastern border. The Germans had more troops in western Poland and Austria than they did in Western Germany. The goal at the end was to protect Berlin.

Ummm....the military says this:

The military objectives of Operation Enduring Freedom, as articulated by President George W. Bush in his Sept. 20th Address to a Joint Session of Congress and his Oct. 7th address to the country, include the destruction of terrorist training camps and infrastructure within Afghanistan, the capture of al Qaeda leaders, and the cessation of terrorist activities in Afghanistan.

Of course you are correct, and they were full of BS, but that is what they said. You should add a couple of important words to your statement:

The goal was to remove the Taliban and instill a leadership more in line with Western business interests.

:iagree: :thumbup:

Quote:

Originally Posted by KENT4.8IS

We, as a country, have messed up a big time. Current Iraqi government is IMPOTENT, even if it is democratically elected.

That's their problem, not ours. Look around the world - plenty of "impotent" governments to be had.