Xoutpost.com

Xoutpost.com (https://xoutpost.com/forums.php)
-   The Lounge (https://xoutpost.com/off-topic/lounge/)
-   -   Pry it out of my cold dead hand... (https://xoutpost.com/off-topic/lounge/54271-pry-out-my-cold-dead-hand.html)

FSETH 11-13-2008 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motordavid
Dunno all the "answer(s)"/reasons, but maybe this has something to do with it:

The Second Amendment, as passed by the House and Senate and later ratified by the States, reads:

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep
and bear arms shall not be infringed.

The hand-written copy of the Bill of Rights which hangs in the National Archives had slightly different
capitalization and punctuation inserted by William Lambert, the scribe who prepared it. This copy reads:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep
and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

GL,mD

I get that, but I don't think it is relevant anymore. From good ole Wikipedia;

The Second Amendment (Amendment II) to the United States Constitution is the part of the United States Bill of Rights that protects the pre-existing individual right to possess and carry weapons (i.e., "keep and bear arms") in case of confrontation.[1] Codification of the right to keep and bear arms into the Bill of Rights was influenced by a fear that the federal government would disarm the people in order to impose rule through a standing army or select militia,[2] since history had shown taking away the people's arms and making it an offense for people to keep them was the way tyrants eliminated resistance to suppression of political opponents.[

Do we really need to worry about that anymore?

The origin of the Militia;

The concept of a universal militia originated in England.[11][12][13] The requirement that subjects bear arms and serve military duty[14][15][16][17] dates back to at least the 12th century when King Henry II, in the Assize of Arms, obligated all freemen to bear arms for public defense. At that time, it was customary for a soldier to purchase, maintain, keep, and bring his own armor and weapon for military service. This was of such importance that Crown officials gave periodic inspections to guarantee a properly armed militia. King Henry III required every subject between the ages of fifteen and fifty (including non-land owning subjects) to own a weapon other than a knife. The reason for such a requirement was that in the absence of a regular army and police force (which was not established until 1829), it was the duty of every man to keep watch and ward at night to capture and confront suspicious persons. Every subject had an obligation to protect the king’s peace and assist in the suppression of riots.[18] This remained relatively unchanged until 1671, when Parliament created a statute that drastically raised the property qualifications needed to possess firearms. In essence, this statute disarmed all but the very wealthy. In 1686, King James II banned without exception the Protestants' ability to possess firearms, even while Protestants constituted over 95% of the English subjects. In 1689, with the rise of William of Orange, the English Bill of Rights reversed this by declaring that "Subjects which are Protestants may have Arms for their defence suitable to their Conditions, and as allowed by Law".

I know that the Constitution/Bill of Rights were written in a way that seems to stay fresh, modern and relevant, but I do think this amendment is somewhat outdated in todays world.

statdoc 11-13-2008 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FSETH
I do think this amendment is somewhat outdated in todays world.

OK, ignoring larger freedom issues, how about this?--I'll remind you of that when you are being carjacked or mugged on the street. Always remember, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

FSETH 11-14-2008 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by statdoc
OK, ignoring larger freedom issues, how about this?--I'll remind you of that when you are being carjacked or mugged on the street. Always remember, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

Agreed, but that means you would need to drive around and walk the streets with a loaded gun on you at all times. :confused:

If someone comes up to your open car window and puts a gun to your head are you really going to have time to grab that gun from the glove box or get it out of your conceiled holster in time to do anything with it? Doubt it.

statdoc 11-14-2008 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FSETH
Agreed, but that means you would need to drive around and walk the streets with a loaded gun on you at all times. :confused:

If someone comes up to your open car window and puts a gun to your head are you really going to have time to grab that gun from the glove box or get it out of your conceiled holster in time to do anything with it? Doubt it.

There are many of us who have taken the time to gain the training and experience to defend ourselves in a variety of circumstances. If you haven't, then I guess you better be really quick to call 911, and learn self-first-aid. :thumbup:

FSETH 11-14-2008 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by statdoc
There are many of us who have taken the time to gain the training and experience to defend ourselves in a variety of circumstances. If you haven't, then I guess you better be really quick to call 911, and learn self-first-aid. :thumbup:

So that means it wouldn't help in that situation, right?:D

ylwjacket 11-14-2008 12:15 AM

It bascially comes down to this - it may be outdated, but it's still the law of the land. No one is required to own a gun, but if you meet the requirements, you are allowed to.

If the Amendment is outdated, then a new Amendment should be passed to change it.

FSETH 11-14-2008 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ylwjacket
It bascially comes down to this - it may be outdated, but it's still the law of the land. No one is required to own a gun, but if you meet the requirements, you are allowed to.

If the Amendment is outdated, then a new Amendment should be passed to change it.

and a lot of people who don't meet the requirements can get one also.

IMO, it is out-dated and should be revisited. It appears that a major original factor in making it a right to bear arm's is not an issue in today's world. I don't think there is much fear of the government disarming individuals in order to impose rule by force anymore. I know there are a lot of people that love guns, that is fine, but without trying to sound all Michael Moore-ish, why are there so many more gun related crimes and deaths in the US compared to other countries? We obviously have an issue with guns here.

Wagner 11-14-2008 05:59 AM

There is a very simple test that would make everyone uncomfortable with just police being armed.

Go to a firing range during police qualifications :)

Wagner 11-14-2008 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FSETH
and a lot of people who don't meet the requirements can get one also.

IMO, it is out-dated and should be revisited. It appears that a major original factor in making it a right to bear arm's is not an issue in today's world. I don't think there is much fear of the government disarming individuals in order to impose rule by force anymore. I know there are a lot of people that love guns, that is fine, but without trying to sound all Michael Moore-ish, why are there so many more gun related crimes and deaths in the US compared to other countries? We obviously have an issue with guns here.


And how many of those "gun deaths" are a result of a person who owns the gun legally killing someone with it? More so it is very very easy to take the stance of "they are unnecessary today" when you've personally never been in a situation where you could have used one :)

motordavid 11-14-2008 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ylwjacket
It bascially comes down to this - it may be outdated, but it's still the law of the land. No one is required to own a gun, but if you meet the requirements, you are allowed to.

If the Amendment is outdated, then a new Amendment should be passed to change it.

:iagree: ...absolfookinlutely!

Do I agree/like every aspect of the Constitution? Well, it is a helluva
document that has held up very well for a couple plus centuries.
BR,mD


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:17 AM.

vBulletin, Copyright 2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0
© 2017 Xoutpost.com. All rights reserved.