VW Diesels - Page 6

JCL · #51 09-27-2015, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshdub

Right. Pulling their certification for importing new cars is not the same as prohibiting registration of used and already in use vehicles. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. While I do believe this will probably all blow over soon, I am glad I don't currently own a TDI due to the up coming potential hassle.

I wouldn't say it is for importing, it is for permitting to sell, as the regs apply equally to domestics and imports.

I think of it as being more analogous to possessing property that is illegal. The current owner didn't commit a crime, but the goods are tainted by their provenance.

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motordavid · #52 09-27-2015, 01:38 PM

Interesting read and opin, from Jenkins in Sat's WSJ...

By
Holman W. Jenkins, Jr.

Sept. 25, 2015 6:06 p.m. ET

Martin Winterkorn lost his job over the Volkswagen emissions cheating scandal, but his head should be the least to roll. Lord forgive us for saying something that could be misconstrued as supportive of Donald Trump: If the Trump phenomenon is a revolt against “stupid” elites, there is much to revolt about.

A consensus has formed, in a remarkably short time since the VW scandal, that Europe’s rush to embrace diesel cars was a colossal policy error. For a meaningless cut in greenhouse emissions, Europe got higher emissions of nitrogen oxides and diesel particulates. While claims of thousands of additional deaths from this diesel pollution are questionable, Europe now realizes it converted half its cars to diesel for no good reason. And this is just the beginning.

If carbon dioxide is a problem, cars were never the solution. Cars and light trucks account for less than 8% of global emissions; U.S. cars and light trucks account for less than 3%. U.S. car makers are being required by government to spend hundreds of billions on fuel-mileage improvements in the name of global warming that will have virtually zero effect on global warming.

The real carbon problem, if it’s a problem, is upstream in power plants and heavy industry. If those problems are solved, cars might as well go on burning gasoline. If those problems aren’t solved, cars contribute little. What if we insist on carbon-free cars anyway? Even then, the internal-combustion engine is far from obsolete. Hydrogen, manufactured using non-carbon energy, could fuel the cars we have on the road now. So could biofuels. Electric cars, which we subsidize out the wazoo, not only are insufficient to solve any carbon problem. They are unnecessary.

Much remains to be learned about the VW scandal, but the Economist magazine, blindly marching along, already thinks the answer is more rigorous testing to make sure cars achieve their meaningless emissions goals. And adds: “If VW’s behavior hastens diesel’s death, it may lead at last, after so many false starts, to the beginning of the electric-car age.”

The electric-car age? Why?

Expect, even now, a decorous investigation of the VW scandal. Don’t expect a full exposure of the panic when the company realized it could not hit the U.S. emissions targets for nitrogen oxide, plus the Obama fuel mileage requirements, plus customer expectations for price and performance in an affordable sedan.

A private study, carried out by West Virginia University and the International Council for Clean Transportation, set off the scandal in the first place. The study focused on three diesel vehicles: two modest VW sedans and a much larger, more expensive BMW SUV.

The BMW was a full 1,600 pounds heavier—thus naturally suited to diesel, with its low-revving torque—and carried twice the sticker price, helping to accommodate elaborate clean-diesel technology. The BMW’s mileage was good, not spectacular, and the vehicle met EPA’s nitrogen-oxide limits.

It’s easy to imagine BMW whispering in somebody’s ear that VW’s claim to have generated low NOX emissions, high mpg, excellent drivability, at a small sedan’s price point, just didn’t add up. And it didn’t.

Yet the iceberg here is much deeper. As we’ve pointed out many times, the Obama fuel-mileage rules are designed to bite after he leaves office. In the meantime, they were mostly designed to prop up Detroit’s SUV and pickup business. Volkswagen itself is partly owned by the German state of Lower Saxony. The company is largely controlled by IG Metall, a German union deeply entwined with German politicians. Don’t believe any guff that the company and politician class did not share a goal of evading any mandates that endangered VW’s growth and employment.

Call it a go-along mind-set in our elites: Politicians who accept huge costs on behalf of the public in order to pose as saviors of the climate, for policies that will have no impact on climate change; business people who play along out of self-interest or fear; a science community whose members endorse the RICO Act to prosecute people who question the claims of climate science.

As a historical note, the mental antecedent here is the energy crisis of the 1970s, which became conflated with the environmental crisis of the 1970s, bequeathing an intuition that requiring higher-mileage vehicles would solve some actual problem (it wouldn’t).

Alas, a genuine coming-clean would be very different from what we’re about to get out of the VW mess. Let car makers build the cars the public wants; these cars would likely be roughly as safe and clean—or more so—than those churned out under regulatory mandate. Naturally, readers will doubt this last bit: They are wrong, because, in their innocence, they believe reason plays a bigger role in our regulatory designs than it actually does.

Politicians Hope Scandal Stops at VW - WSJ

JCL · #53 09-28-2015, 03:23 PM

Some interesting developments in the past few days:

1) Bosch develops VW's engine control and emissions software. Bosch writes a program that changes the test mode. Bosch writes a letter to VW advising that the program is for test purposes only, and can not be used on vehicles for sale. The letter is dated 2007. A copy of it was just published in a German paper.

2) The European Central Bank finances VW's new car sales, finance, and leasing program. They advise that they won't be lending any more money to VW, evoking a comparison with Greece. New car sales will be a challenge.

3) Germany's motor vehicle department demands that VW submit a plan by October 7 to rectify the emissions of 2.8 million VW diesels sold in Germany. If they don't, the government advises that they will pull the type approval, making it illegal to operate those vehicles on public roads. Consumer lawsuits grow in number.

4) More engineers and managers leave VW, but that is not so much news as it is a steady stream now.

From the above, it doesn't look like the EPA is VW's biggest problem.

Jeff

bawareca · #54 09-28-2015, 04:33 PM

Interesting. EPA and US prosecutors could be some VW people biggest concerns. Especially now after the giant appeared to have very tiny legs and probably will not offer protection to employees/ex-employees.

Joshdub · #55 09-28-2015, 05:10 PM

When you google VW diesel a couple of the top listings (advertised) are class action lawsuit signups.

The thirst is real.

JCL · #56 09-28-2015, 07:04 PM

I suspect that the propensity to pursue litigation is different by country. When I Google I don't get any class action lawsuit links (here in Canada).

However, one of the top search hits is this photo, from Portland. It is a flyer found on the windshield of a TDI.

motordavid · #57 09-28-2015, 07:44 PM

It gets uglier by the day, as the back stories and thinly buried info seeps out.

I suspect VW is going to have to set aside/take future charges on a lot more than the that $7 B, in the next few weeks.

Wonder if PCar can survive: great cars, high ratings & loyal fan base, but they need a large deep pocket Mother to keep going. Maybe a buyout target.

That Portland flyer is typical, imo. Reminds me of our closest 'city' of Asheville...

How would you like to be that new CEO of VW? PCar guy, hoping to land at the new PCar company after the homecoming floats have burned and the dust and ashes settle.

Good dig out, JCL...
GL, mD

Joshdub · #58 09-28-2015, 08:10 PM

I can't stand Portland. It is the hipster capital of the west.

I'll be surprised if VW actually takes a beating on this. I am guessing it is going to be a slap on the wrist, or it'll come out that other companies are doing something similar. Nothing happened to GM, who actually killed people, and everyone seems to have forgotten about the killer airbags before that even came to a resolution.

As far as the new CEO goes, some have been speculating that this whole thing was a ploy to get him into the chair and do the spring cleaning/restructuring that VW needs.

Then you have others conspiring that this whole thing is just to get diesels off the road entirely

JCL · #59 09-28-2015, 08:33 PM

It may or may not be a slap on the wrist in the US, but it is a global problem for VW. If they get into deep enough trouble in Europe (see posts above) then it won't matter about the US, they won't have any cars to sell there.

I actually think it is a bigger problem for diesels than VW. As regulators rationalize the different fuel tax rates, and tighten up the NOx standards in Europe, life will get tough for those trying to shift consumers to diesels.

JCL · #60 09-28-2015, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshdub

I can't stand Portland. It is the hipster capital of the west.

But you're in Seattle. You won the title!

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