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  #51  
Old 12-05-2021, 03:06 AM
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Let's start with a virus becoming more transmissible....

If the virus kills 1% of its hosts and then becomes "more" transmissible it just means that more hosts get infected NOT that it is deadlier. It's not killing 2% or 20% more of infected hosts, it still has the same % of lethality.

As for satiated lifeforms that does NOT solely refer to life such as mammals, reptiles, invertebrates, etc.

"by becoming more deadly by having the ability to reduce the effectiveness of the virus thereby even infecting fully vaccinated individuals"~BC

Uhmm did you even read this? Becoming more deadly by a reduced effectiveness of a virus? WTF? So a less effective virus is more deadly? (Not even remotely true) viruses are genetically predisposed to spread and a deadlier virus kills more hosts limiting their ability to transmit to another host making that strain die out quicker, a virus that doesn't kill or incapacitate its host gets transmitted more often and becomes the dominant strain. Quick acting viruses like Ebola generally didn't spread far since the infected host became too ill to travel and died. That's why looking at the maps of Ebola outbreaks shows tight clusters and not large swaths. Plus to be fair I did say in simplistic terms and yet I still have to explain it to you.

Now about sarcasm and tact...

You have based your replies on a funny meme yet you have taken the meme as gospel and based your entire argument on refuting it.

As for the age issue I only replied to your insinuation that I was probably too young to know the tv show and possibly intimating a lack of experience.
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Last edited by EODguy; 12-05-2021 at 03:36 AM.
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  #52  
Old 12-06-2021, 04:14 PM
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Question

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Originally Posted by EODguy View Post
Let's start with a virus becoming more transmissible....

I'll start with---what is the reason you can't make a post without including insults? I'm sorry I'm upsetting you by challenging your conclusions. It's not personal. I am only addressing what I believe are misleading or inaccurate statements.

If the virus kills 1% of its hosts and then becomes "more" transmissible it just means that more hosts get infected NOT that it is deadlier. It's not killing 2% or 20% more of infected hosts, it still has the same % of lethality. Let's say 100 have been infected. 1% is 1. The vaccine then mutates and in the same period of time it infects 200 people. 1% is now 2. While the percent doesn't change the number of deaths does. In effect, the virus is more deadly. That was the point. It was not based on virility but death count.

As for satiated lifeforms that does NOT solely refer to life such as mammals, reptiles, invertebrates, etc. But your post was about a virus becomes satiated. My response was it does not and still applies. We weren't talking about anything other than a virus.

"by becoming more deadly by having the ability to reduce the effectiveness of the virus thereby even infecting fully vaccinated individuals"~BC

I made a mistake here I intended to use the word vaccine rather than virus. Oops.

Uhmm did you even read this? Becoming more deadly by a reduced effectiveness of a virus? WTF? So a less effective virus is more deadly? (Not even remotely true) viruses are genetically predisposed to spread and a deadlier virus kills more hosts limiting their ability to transmit to another host making that strain die out quicker, a virus that doesn't kill or incapacitate its host gets transmitted more often and becomes the dominant strain. Quick acting viruses like Ebola generally didn't spread far since the infected host became too ill to travel and died. That's why looking at the maps of Ebola outbreaks shows tight clusters and not large swaths. Plus to be fair I did say in simplistic terms and yet I still have to explain it to you. I think that the number hospitalized due to the cost, the number in ICU due to the cost and potential longterm issues, and most importantly deaths is a better way to put the impact of the virus into perspective. Again, a more contagious virus infects more people. The 1% is based on current rate of infection. If the 1% drops but the infection rate doubles the deaths could still be the same or more. Yes, if a virus kills more at some point it can burn out. However, since there are billions that haven't been vaccinated, more that have not had the booster and millions depending on natural immunity the death count would be horrendous.

Now about sarcasm and tact...

You have based your replies on a funny meme yet you have taken the meme as gospel and based your entire argument on refuting it.

As for the age issue I only replied to your insinuation that I was probably too young to know the tv show and possibly intimating a lack of experience.
My posts have nothing to do with your meme. I responded I didn't think it was funny. That was the end of that. All else have been responses to your other posts. I don't see this as arguing. I'm not angry with you. There was no insinuation about your age. I have great respect for the input of young folks. I don't discount their intelligence, experience or wisdom in any way. If that's what you thought why didn't you just ask me?
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Last edited by bcredliner; 12-06-2021 at 04:32 PM.
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  #53  
Old 12-16-2021, 01:08 AM
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  #54  
Old 12-16-2021, 05:29 AM
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I agree with you EODguy; but you're wasting your energy. Rational reasoning and logic, the ideas of personal rights, freedoms and bodily autonomy - they're all completely wasted on people blinkered by this manufactured culture of fear.
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  #55  
Old 12-16-2021, 01:53 PM
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There is absolutely NO proof that the virus was manufactured. To those that say there is more evidence it is--evidence is not necessarily proof. The proof comes from evaluation of the evidence and that has not been done. Personal rights do not allow one to infringe on the personal rights or freedom of another. It is about doing the right thing, each of us doing our part to get the pandemic under control. It doesn't matter right now where the virus came from. it is about what we should do to stop the spread of COVID. That hasn't changed. Wear a mask, avoid crowds, social distancing, get vaccinated including a booster.

There are already lockdowns in other countries and preventative actions have started in the US. It seems to me that those that won't get vaccinated are the same ones that are adamantly against any mandated restrictions to reduce the spread of COVID. I can't find the logic.

One is either a part of the problem or part of the solution. I have asked the following question before and it went unanswered: If you won't get vaccinated and/or follow the guidelines---How will the COVID pandemic be stopped? What is your solution?
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  #56  
Old 12-16-2021, 05:10 PM
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Regardless of where the virus came from, the culture of fear has been manufactured. It's a tool used to gain power and control. This pandemic takes it to the next level but it's been going on for a long time.



Nobody has suggested taking away others rights and freedom other than those sitting in your corner. If you want to stay at home, avoid travelling, wear a mask - fine do it, it's your right to choose to do those things for yourself. But mandating these things for everyone by law, removing others ability to make their own personal risk assessment and choices, forcibly taking away their freedoms - that's wrong.


As for 'being part of the problem or part of the solution', is anything ever that black and white? And who says we have to 'stop the spread of covid', who says we can ever hope to 'control the virus'. We've been living with these viruses for thousands of years, they are quite literally a fact of life. They eventually become more transmissible and less lethal - a seriously deadly virus is not a particularly successful virus. By interfering with it's natural development we're probably just making this worse and dragging it out for longer.
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  #57  
Old 12-16-2021, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBF View Post
Regardless of where the virus came from, the culture of fear has been manufactured. It's a tool used to gain power and control. This pandemic takes it to the next level but it's been going on for a long time.
Who is trying to gain power and control? What is this culture of manufactured fear?

Nobody has suggested taking away others rights and freedom other than those sitting in your corner. If you want to stay at home, avoid travelling, wear a mask - fine do it, it's your right to choose to do those things for yourself. But mandating these things for everyone by law, removing others ability to make their own personal risk assessment and choices, forcibly taking away their freedoms - that's wrong
The only reason for mandates is because there are so many that resist doing the right thing on their own. My point was your rights end where mine begin. It is an infringement on my rights and freedom. In a broad sense mandates are laws. No different than laws against speeding, driving drunk, shooting someone, breaking into a house etc. I don't like mandates either but I think those not getting vaccinated or not following the guidelines will ever do so on their own. It is very likely the only way the pandemic will get under control is by mandates. If you don't want mandates all that is necessary is to get vaccinated and follow the guidelines. Not doing so will likely result in the very mandates you are against.

As for 'being part of the problem or part of the solution', is anything ever that black and white? And who says we have to 'stop the spread of covid', who says we can ever hope to 'control the virus'. We've been living with these viruses for thousands of years, they are quite literally a fact of life. They eventually become more transmissible and less lethal - a seriously deadly virus is not a particularly successful virus. By interfering with it's natural development we're probably just making this worse and dragging it out for longer.
There are already many viruses that we have been required (mandated) to be vaccinated against for decades. I hope you are not serious that we should just ignore the COVID crisis and what will be will be? Can you provide a credible source that agrees with you? Over 800,000 citizens have died and you think we should just let it rock along it's merry way? Virus don't always become less lethal and more contagious. That's incorrect. Experts around the world agree that vaccination and following the guidelines vital to controlling the virus. That is the science.

It is black and white in this case. If you aren't part of the solution you are clearly part of the problem. Same question---How are you part of the solution? What is your science based solution?
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  #58  
Old 12-16-2021, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBF View Post
I agree with you EODguy; but you're wasting your energy. Rational reasoning and logic, the ideas of personal rights, freedoms and bodily autonomy - they're all completely wasted on people blinkered by this manufactured culture of fear.
Personal rights have limitations as does freedom and bodily autonomy. It is clearly stated in the bill of rights.
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Last edited by bcredliner; 12-18-2021 at 08:27 PM.
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  #59  
Old 12-17-2021, 12:17 AM
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It is black and white in this case. If you aren't part of the solution you are clearly part of the problem.

A world wide pandemic, and you’re telling me, you are able to classify it soundly as black and white, with no variables.

BC, you are better than your above statement.
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  #60  
Old 12-17-2021, 02:07 AM
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Personal rights have limitations as does freedom and bodily autonomy. It is clearly stated in the Bill of rights.

You're arguing with a bloody pomme about our Bill of Rights?
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