No, I hear you. The phenomenon of contagious fire is not one that is about a mindset or thinking. Indeed, it is a training issue. The tendency is to start shooting once you hear or see your colleagues start blazing. It's totally wrong and I think that NYPD has a serious training issue. As you stated, this is not the first shooting of this type by NYPD. I have a feeling that in addition to poor training, there is a personnel issue in terms of hiring. NYPD is the largest police force in the country and one of the lowest paid. Even I can do the math on that one. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the majority of NYPD's officers are straight up people trying to do the best they can and serve honorably but I see that hiring qualified people to become officers is becoming harder and harder.

There are some very troubling facts in this case and as Gresch conceded, 31 rounds with a magazine change when you're not taking any fire from the "bad guys" is very, very disturbing.

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Agreed, I too want to see the facts but I think that either way there is NO way they could possibly not be at fault, how my bullets do you need? Honestly its pathetic, I agree with the above statement that they are doing the best they can, you always have to keep in mind they are just people too, but regardless I doubt he'll be tried for murder, please I bet they will just sweep it under the rug and continue on with the ignorance, its sad and totally pathetic how it was handled and I do hope someone pays for it, I agree that all the facts need to come out K but sorry my mind has already been made up on it, there is NO NO NO NO way they could possibly be justified in what they did, end of story

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This is a sad case regardless what the facts eventually reveal. To me there are too few facts to draw any conclusions from.

What we do 'know' is that they came out of a strip club (likely drinking etc), the groom had a dispute with somebody, there was mention of a gun by one of the victims in the dispute, they ran into a cop, they backed up and then ran into a police van (disputed by a stripper), the police shot a total of 50 or so rounds, none of the officers have been in a shooting before, they were experienced officers. I'm sure I missed something here - all 'facts' based on the article.

What we don't know is when the shooting started and stopped. If they started shooting after they hit the cop (meaning the 'victims' used deadly force by running over/into a cop), I would say the cops were justified in shooting.

If they stopped shooting once the car finally came to a stop, then I would say that was the appropriate time to stop shooting.

With semi-auto weapons being fired into a car in the dark (4:00 am), you can shoot a lot of rounds without knowing if you hit your target or not and would likely shoot until the car stops. Is 50 rounds excessive? If that's what it took to stop the car, I don't think so.

Bottom line, I don't know if the cops did anything wrong and strongly believe we need to wait to hear more information. I'm pleased that Rev. Sharpton is involved as the police dept. will be more careful to do a full, complete and honest investigation with involvement.

Also, one of the post above spoke about Rev. Sharpton's involvement in black-on-black crime. I would only say that Rev. Sharpton spends much of his time addressing that very issue and has been a major voice on both Coast to try to reduce black-on-black crime as well as many other issues including police brutality, racisim etc.

None of us know the facts on this shooting, on the surface I agree, it looks bad. I was only referring to shooting incidents in general and not this incident. All I wanted to say was that sometimes things happen that are not explained or understood until a proper investigation is completed. I have no tolerance for police abuse, there is no doubt NYPD has had some issues in the past and I would hope, if it is determined the officers were found to be in the wrong, they would be charged appropriately.

" Also, one of the post above spoke about Rev. Sharpton's involvement in black-on-black crime. I would only say that Rev. Sharpton spends much of his time addressing that very issue and has been a major voice on both Coast to try to reduce black-on-black crime as well as many other issues including police brutality, racisim etc."


I have to disagree with you about Sharpton on that topic (black on black crime), his actions don't support your claim.

Google "black on black crime" and you get a pretty good list of links, BUT, you get to a link about David Duke before you get anywhere near a link to Sharpton or even Jesse Jackson (and it's insulting to Jackson to even lump him in with Al). Even more telling is that the first link that mentions Sharpton is from 2000, over 6 years ago. (That is astounding).

Having grown up and lived in/around NYC for most of my life, maybe I have a negative bias towards him because of the Towana Brawley ridiculousness, or him getting caught on tape by the FBI trying to broker a cocaine deal, or any of a number of times where he's been an opportunistic glory hound.

It's probably not very PC of a white guy like me saying that he doesn't like a prominent black activist, but this has nothing to do with the color of his skin and everything to do with the character of the man.

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You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.

One officer fires two clips worth 31 rounds....what justifies that?

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An unwavering defender of those I see worth protecting.

"promote the general welfare, not provide the general welfare"

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

If that's what it took to stop the car from running into the van.

If the car was already stopped, then no, it wasn't justified.

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You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.

No matter what, the officers we're not justified, sorry G

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I'm not a fan of Sharpton (or Jackson), however, I do appreciate what they have tried to accomplish for civil rights etc. over their careers. Sharpton's approach can certainly change, but his purpose is valid.

When I first came to the US I lived in NYC and remember seeing on the news that a black teen had killed another in order to get a pair of shoes. That's when I was actually introduced to the term "black-on-black crime" when I saw Rev. Sharpton speaking about it and the need for the black community and chuches to step-up it's role in trying to educate and prevent it in the future. Rev. Sharpton used some alarming statistics about this type of crime and made strong mention that the way to reduce it starts at the home.

When we moved to LA Rev Sharpton was once again one of the central figures in helping reduce violence creating peace between the various street gangs of LA (most notably the Crips and Bloods). I can't speak for what google brings up on Sharpton and his stance on black on black crime, but I can speak for what I've seen him take on.

Now, is he a glory hound? Maybe, but he does bring a certain type of attention to an issue when he gets involved and prevents items from being 'swept under the rug'. Regardless of his tactics, I do appreciate his efforts.

I understand your hesitation in speaking out 'against him' as a white person. However, I don't find your comments offensive in any way. There are many people that don't support Sharpton or Jackson based on their agendas, ability or by judging on how they have handled past situations.

The Cocaine ordeal and the Ms Brawley issue are valid items to point to as reasons not to support Sharpton and any leader or politician black or not should be fairly scrutinized and called to the carpet based on thier actions. Thanks for being sensitive to the issue and for sharing you unbiased opinion - I know that can be hard to feel safe doing in ultra PC times.