They can rev higher and are one of the most mod-able engines in the history of the internal combustion engine.

GM small block V8s can be pushed 25-50% in HP via supercharging with only a very small decrease in MPG's.

That's not an option on a german engine as they're wound tight right out of the factory so you're not going to see similar gains in HP, especially not at a comparable price. It's not as common to mod a bmw engine, the most talked about mods on this site are running boards and bosch wiper blades . By comparison, a Vette board's most visited sub forum is the engine mod section, that's one of the main reasons people buy a Vette, to get the engine and start modding away. IMHO, GM intentionally leaves room for owners to pump up the engines, it's what makes the car even more desireable to some.

It's just a different engine philosophy by different manufacturers. I could talk about it all day

But as Josh says, there just ain't no replacement for displacement

Google magnuson supercharging, Here's a blurb:

Magnuson Intercooled Supercharger System for 1997-2004 C5 or Z06 Corvette.

Gains 130 hp and 130 ft-lbs of rear wheel torque over stock.

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

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You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.

We're talking about what you get out of the factory. What one can/cannot do with mods is an entirely separate subject, and one that has nothing to do with the engineering from the manufacturer.

If the engine was good, it would rev higher esp bc of it's titanium rods, valves and what not. Imo, GM had to use titanium for those components bc they couldn't get the engine to survive on normal materials. Not only that, this engine is oversquare/close to square, so it's cylinder filling abilities natural to this geometry should allow the engine to make power at high rpm. So by logical reasoning, you should have the low-down tq you guys enjoy so much and power up high. Either GM wasn't able to make the engine withstant high rpm or they have absolutely no idea how to design/engineer a cyl head, or both.

You're only dissing GM by it saying intentionally holds back so that the owner can mod the engine. In any vehicle in any market, the % of engines that get modded at all from their og spec is very very low, and even less consideing the radical mods you're talking about.. So I doubt that is GM's philosophy. All in all, what you're saying reminds of the competitor that tells his opponent that he let the other guy win after losing badly. It's quite a statement to make after arguing how good the LS_ engine is. This engine was fantastic..40 years ago.

In any case, mpg increases/decreases are directly dependant only on the efficiency of the supercharger. And 130whp increase doesn't seem that impressive considering what fraction it is of the original power.

Once again, there ain't replacement for displacement only when you can't do any better. Let's look at what are considered the best vehicles/engines in the world. They have nothing in common with the LS_ other than that they are four cycle and use the 5 C's.

OT: I welcome any thoughts from you guys on why you think the push-rod/ohv design is better than the ohc design.

what are you talking about??? read your post again.. Audi has 2 motors. a W12 and a 5.4l V10 based on the gallardo block.The problem with high rev motors are they do not develop a ounce of torque until way up there making it useless on the street. tuned small block NA V8's are making 100hp per liter. Look at the BMW v10 application, do you call 8mpg efficiency???? give me a break junior and come back and talk when you can afford the cars that you talk about.

some call it glass half full vs glass half empty.. the half full works better in a debate..

I typo'd..meant 6.0L W12. Z06's, 911s and M3s are meant to shine on the track not the street...a wider powerband is what you want on the track..and gear-ratios to match the engine. Stock LS3 is not even 70hp per liter..I'd to see where you're able to get another 30hp/L just from tuning.. 760li has a combined epa rating of 18mpg..that ain't bad for a V12 pulling around something that weighs that much. And quit the lame arguement of me not being able to afford what im talkin about..makes no sense and has nothing to do with what we're talkin about.

..All a transmission is, is a torque multiplier, so this arguement of tq down low doesn't hold at all..wide powerband and good gearing are where it's at.

My stock Chrysler 300C SRT8 has more HP that an M3.

Only 10hp more than my car stock, of course I am at about 500hp now with just a couple of mods, these days I just go looking for M5's to mess with.



6.1 Hemi baby.

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2004 Estoril blue BMW X5 4.8is built 8/04 :domn:

EPA ratings don't mean crap. Friend's 760 is getting about 11mpg combined. As for 30 more hp per liter, easy, cams, TB, exhaust, headers. The vette motors are highly detuned stock. As for YOUR argument about the LS3 not making any power per liter, who cares?? It's making more power at no expense of anything else. I would tend to question why audi (with the exception of the TDIs) or BMW can't make a car that gets 30mpg cruising and still be able to romp everybody on the track.

BTW, reading about the concepts is one thing, experiencing is another. Why do you think I rarely hire college grads straight out of school? cuz they DON'T have experience. have you even taken apart and rebuild a motor or a tranny??? I highly suggest you go out and drive a Z06 vette or a Ford GT. Great cars STREET AND TRACK cars.

Car manufacturers will have reality check with the new 2008 EPA ratings method which is more close to reality and will downgrade existing mpg epa ratings.
Glad in my line I never have to hire inexperienced kids.

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Dave- I remember when cars got the hp kicked out of them, muscle cars were gone and we all putted around in slugs- it was called the late 70's-mid 90's!

Vig- you gotta spend more behind the wheel time in a pushrod V-8 equipped car. Horsepower is just for top speed, but it's torque that provides the acceleration

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JV

What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know...it's what we know for sure that just ain't so