Pitt Bulls

blondboinsd · #1 09-10-2007, 01:35 AM

I don't understand the issue, I've seen 3 attacks in 3 days, and now 1 dog killed at my dog park?

What gives?

Why is this breed so vicious? I refuse to socialize my dog with them because of his size, I don't understand how a breed can be so vicious???

Now I do understand they have a history of violence because people have historically been raised to kill, but the owners I keep seeing are not thugs, so I'm unsure if their just perhaps mean dogs by nature?

I almost feel like due to the fact the dogs are so feared by many, and dogs can smell fear, they require much more dominance (since they are Pack dogs and need you to be the leader)

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NOVAX5 · #2 09-10-2007, 02:20 AM

ask micheal vick why he did what he did then you will understand why. i have no issue with dogs btw.

B-Line · #3 09-10-2007, 02:24 AM

You put my dog near a body of water, SHE JUMPS IN. I guess that's normal, she is a Portuguese Waterdog. The breed was developed as a working dog that would go out with portuguese fisherman and help them with daily chores on the boat, including, jumping in the water and herding fish into nets. Pulling nets back to the boat. Diving for escaped fish and swimming back to shore to send and receive messages.
-- My point is, dogs do what is in their nature to do. If they were breed to hunt, generally, they will hunt, even if you don't teach them to do so, it's just in their evolution. That is why they were breed. Because they have certain characteristics that are prevelant and through thousands of years, they were domesticated and the "desired" trait was engineered into the breed.

So even though, pit bulls can be friendly, warm, loving animals, with a clear respect for boundries, etc. They were largely breed for their stregnth, ability to do harm, fight, etc.
So, it's just NATURAL, that an aggressive, strong breed like a pit bull, CAN have violent tendencies.

Another point! - You see dogs fight in parks all the time. It's no different than watching two kids in a sandbox fighting over the tonka toy.
What is different, is the skill and strength that Pit Bulls, Rott's, have. They are just SO strong and such skilled fighters-attackers, that a very violent outcome can and does, often happen.
There is a reason they are used for dog fighting. It's because they are incredibly good at it.

So the cute little Wheaton Terrier that gets into a fight with mr. pit bull at the park, doesn't stand a chance. The pit bull is doing what it was breed to do. Be the stronger, faster, more violent dog.. The result being a malled childs face or someone else's dead pup.

After living in NYC for two years and spending a great deal of time in the Washington Square Park Dog Run, I can tell you this, I won't let my dog anywhere near certain breeds anymore. NO THANK YOU.

B

blondboinsd · #4 09-10-2007, 02:27 AM

I agree B, I have recieved flack for refusing to allow my dog to socialize with Pitts or Rotts, I feel my dogs safety is more important then the chance I'll offend the owner, much more important and I have no issue telling people that.

B-Line · #5 09-10-2007, 02:35 AM

Pitt and or Rott owners are largely living in denial.
Yes, we hear all day long, it's not the breed, it's the owner, yet the violence that these dogs "can" exhibit, is not all that different from walking around with a loaded gun.

No, not every loaded gun is going to go off, or shoot someone, or end up in the hands of a yound child... -- But enough of them do, that it's only smart to take precautions.

Again, not every Pit or Rott is going to hurt someone or some dog. But over and over again, we see that many of them do.

Keep your dog away from them BO. It's just not worth it. Dog's do easily get into little fights. We all know this, and I don't want to have to wrestle my dog out of the arms of one of those breeds.

btw, if your pup ever does get into a fight with one, what ever you do, don't go for your dogs collar. That is what the other dog is trying to bite, around the neck.

always grab the dogs from the hind legs, so they can continue to use their mouth to protect themselves until the other owner arrives. But make sure to keep your hands away from both dogs mouths.. That's how most people get accidentally bit in dog runs.

B

vinuneuro · #6 09-10-2007, 02:38 AM

It's genetics as B' pointed out. I think ALL dogs can behave the way we want them to..ideally. Certain breeds just need to be raised very carefully.

B-Line · #7 09-10-2007, 02:52 AM

Vin,

But you miss a big point. Dogs are not robots.
Example, EVERYTIME my dog see's water, a lake, pool, ocean, WHATEVER, as long as it's wet, her head picks up, her tail curls, and she stands at attention.
After years and years of training, she knows, she's not allowed in the water until i take off her collar and give her the ok.
She will literally stare at the pool intensely until I say, "OK, in the water".. Then she jumps in like a kid on Halloween.

When I am with her, she would never jump in the water without my OK..

-- Having said that, there have been times when I have had friends watch her for a few days while I'm traveling.
There was one time, middle of winter (in florida, so it wasn't that cold.) but Nikita had not been in a pool in months. My friend was staying at the house and taking care of her. He told me he walked her into the backyard to pee, she looked at the pool, she looked at him, she looked back at the pool, she looked back at him. And as he was screaming NO !!!!! She was jumping in the pool. Came out with a huge smile on her face and my buddy was late to work because he had to dry her.

Again, Nikita would not have done that if I were there. But she was testing my buddy. She thought she could get away with it, so she went for it. Even though I have taught her, she needs permission to go in the water, she was doing, what was in her nature.

So even if you have a dog, and a member of the household that teaches the dog to behave, there are circumstances where the dog is going to revert back to their nature.

So, pit bull owner teaches his dog to not be aggressive or violent. But pit bull gets into situation where it stops "thinking" and starts "acting", pit bull will, by nature, be very dangerous.
Remember Ziegfried and Roy? I'm sure that Tiger that attacked Roy was better trained than any dog that you will ever see in a dog run.

B

X5SA · #8 09-10-2007, 03:01 AM

some of this is quite funny - most of it quite true. http://www.dogpolitics.com/my_weblog..._most_dan.html

kirkX5m · #9 09-10-2007, 03:11 AM

it really sucks for the breed that crap like that happens and it gets all over the news. i love the rotties, im gonna get one, but yes its genetics, the pitt bulls and the rotties are very strong dogs very capable of killing, and i am one of those that will put the blame on the owner 110%. in this case, in a dog park, if you see an aggressive breed of dog in the park, just pick up your dog and leave. i know it sucks that YOU have to leave and not them, but you are acting as a responsible owner, and for the good of YOUR dog. the asshole that brings in him unsocialized pitt or rottie needs to get his head checked and verbal abuse from the other dog owners in the park....just my two cents.

isnt this so cute

vinuneuro · #10 09-10-2007, 04:48 AM

You're arguing that genetics completely negates any behavior 'training' a dog may receive in the form of socialization,etc. A pit bull is more likely get into that fighting zone, but imo that is much more likely if it isn't socialized properly, exercised, etc. If a dog's energy is used in a positive manner, it is much less likely to get into that bad zone.

I agree with you that a pit bull genetically will have certain tendencies, but the owner has a LOT influence in how much they are expressed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-Line

Vin,

But you miss a big point. Dogs are not robots.
Example, EVERYTIME my dog see's water, a lake, pool, ocean, WHATEVER, as long as it's wet, her head picks up, her tail curls, and she stands at attention.
After years and years of training, she knows, she's not allowed in the water until i take off her collar and give her the ok.
She will literally stare at the pool intensely until I say, "OK, in the water".. Then she jumps in like a kid on Halloween.

When I am with her, she would never jump in the water without my OK..

-- Having said that, there have been times when I have had friends watch her for a few days while I'm traveling.
There was one time, middle of winter (in florida, so it wasn't that cold.) but Nikita had not been in a pool in months. My friend was staying at the house and taking care of her. He told me he walked her into the backyard to pee, she looked at the pool, she looked at him, she looked back at the pool, she looked back at him. And as he was screaming NO !!!!! She was jumping in the pool. Came out with a huge smile on her face and my buddy was late to work because he had to dry her.

Again, Nikita would not have done that if I were there. But she was testing my buddy. She thought she could get away with it, so she went for it. Even though I have taught her, she needs permission to go in the water, she was doing, what was in her nature.

So even if you have a dog, and a member of the household that teaches the dog to behave, there are circumstances where the dog is going to revert back to their nature.

So, pit bull owner teaches his dog to not be aggressive or violent. But pit bull gets into situation where it stops "thinking" and starts "acting", pit bull will, by nature, be very dangerous.
Remember Ziegfried and Roy? I'm sure that Tiger that attacked Roy was better trained than any dog that you will ever see in a dog run.

B

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