Al Gore, what a phony...

Eric5273 · #1 04-03-2008, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quicksilver

You actually believe this? Come on Eric........ Think....

Yes, I do. On a large scale, people only do things such as this when they are forced to. It will not happen volunterily.

Yes, some people will buy hybrid/electric cars, and some people will spend the money to fit their homes with solar energy, etc. But they will be the minority. Real change will only happen when the majority submits to these sort of changes, and that will only happen when it is law.

As you may or may not know, a car today produces about 1-2% of the carbon emissions of a car produced in 1960. Yet, never during that entire 50 year period have the auto manufacturers reduced carbon emissions on their own. Instead, as regulations changed (i.e. laws), they had to make changes to their cars in order for their cars to pass emissions tests, and so they did. Do you really believe that would have happened on its own if the government still had the same regulations they had in 1960?

Another example of this is safety. Today there are so many safety regulations, that many cars produced in other countries have to be modified in order to be sold in the US and meet our strict safety standards. Without these laws, many cars being sold would be unsafe. While you may occasionally read complaints from car enthusiast magazines about how we cannot get certain vehicles because they won't pass US safety standards, Americans as a whole are better off because we have these safety standards, and tens of thousands of Americans owe their lives to the fact that we have such laws. If you have ever been in a serious car accident, you could even be one of them.

MrLabGuy · #2 04-03-2008, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric5273

Yes, I do. On a large scale, people only do things such as this when they are forced to. It will not happen volunterily.

Yes, some people will buy hybrid/electric cars, and some people will spend the money to fit their homes with solar energy, etc. But they will be the minority. Real change will only happen when the majority submits to these sort of changes, and that will only happen when it is law.

As you may or may not know, a car today produces about 1-2% of the carbon emissions of a car produced in 1960. Yet, never during that entire 50 year period have the auto manufacturers reduced carbon emissions on their own. Instead, as regulations changed (i.e. laws), they had to make changes to their cars in order for their cars to pass emissions tests, and so they did. Do you really believe that would have happened on its own if the government still had the same regulations they had in 1960?

Another example of this is safety. Today there are so many safety regulations, that many cars produced in other countries have to be modified in order to be sold in the US and meet our strict safety standards. Without these laws, many cars being sold would be unsafe. While you may occasionally read complaints from car enthusiast magazines about how we cannot get certain vehicles because they won't pass US safety standards, Americans as a whole are better off because we have these safety standards, and tens of thousands of Americans owe their lives to the fact that we have such laws. If you have ever been in a serious car accident, you could even be one of them.

Here is where your argument goes awry. There needs to be a balance between economy and safety. The laws of physics dictates that driving a Suburban head on into a Prius makes the Suburban a safer car.

If you leave safety up to the free market responsible safety conscious people will buy the safer cars and those who chose less will eventually die off as part of Natural Selection thus making unsafe cars less profitable.

How many Hummers are being sold in comparison to the Prius? Seems to me the free market is guiding sales of economy and safety.

E61Silver · #3 04-03-2008, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrLabGuy

Here is where your argument goes awry. There needs to be a balance between economy and safety. The laws of physics dictates that driving a Suburban head on into a Prius makes the Suburban a safer car.

If you leave safety up to the free market responsible safety conscious people will buy the safer cars and those who chose less will eventually die off as part of Natural Selection thus making unsafe cars less profitable.

How many Hummers are being sold in comparison to the Prius? Seems to me the free market is guiding sales of economy and safety.

The problem is that the law of physics generally make large cars and trucks safer, if we all drove smaller cars you would not have to worry about the jerk driving a Hummer.

Car makers resisted change in the 60's, 70's and 80's yet through government dictated standards we have cleaner burning safer cars. We need the government to force change for the good of the people.

MrLabGuy · #4 04-03-2008, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by x54.4blue

The problem is that the law of physics generally make large cars and trucks safer, if we all drove smaller cars you would not have to worry about the jerk driving a Hummer.

Car makers resisted change in the 60's, 70's and 80's yet through government dictated standards we have cleaner burning safer cars. We need the government to force change for the good of the people.

What do plan may I ask to do with all the big rigs on the road? Guess where the car is in this photo.

Good news is the airbag deployed as designed.

Wagner · #5 04-03-2008, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by x54.4blue

The problem is that the law of physics generally make large cars and trucks safer, if we all drove smaller cars you would not have to worry about the jerk driving a Hummer.

Car makers resisted change in the 60's, 70's and 80's yet through government dictated standards we have cleaner burning safer cars. We need the government to force change for the good of the people.

OK Ralph Nadar

Actually specs, designs, materials and advancements in technology have made vehicles safer for the average Joe. However, a Neon at 65mph will bash you off the road just as fast as a Hummer

E61Silver · #6 04-03-2008, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wagner

OK Ralph Nadar

Actually specs, designs, materials and advancements in technology have made vehicles safer for the average Joe. However, a Neon at 65mph will bash you off the road just as fast as a Hummer

It is because of government dictated standards, car makers embraced technology and made cars safer. This is not to say that some car makers like Volvo, MB and BMW were already providing leadership, it just forced the others to move in the same direction. This resulted in a better safer car for the common joe.

Quicksilver · #7 04-03-2008, 04:40 PM

May I please remind you of your own words???

Quote (Originally Posted by Eric5273. The cutting of pollution has to be something that is legislated by the governments of the world in some sort of coordinated effort. Otherwise it is a waste of time.)

I suggest you address your statement again by answering this question. Do you honestly believe that the "the governments of the world are going to get together in some sort of coordinated effort to do anything especially something like this?

Honestly Eric:.....Talk about a pipe dream realized; Not in this life...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric5273

Yes, I do. On a large scale, people only do things such as this when they are forced to. It will not happen volunterily.

Yes, some people will buy hybrid/electric cars, and some people will spend the money to fit their homes with solar energy, etc. But they will be the minority. Real change will only happen when the majority submits to these sort of changes, and that will only happen when it is law.

As you may or may not know, a car today produces about 1-2% of the carbon emissions of a car produced in 1960. Yet, never during that entire 50 year period have the auto manufacturers reduced carbon emissions on their own. Instead, as regulations changed (i.e. laws), they had to make changes to their cars in order for their cars to pass emissions tests, and so they did. Do you really believe that would have happened on its own if the government still had the same regulations they had in 1960?

Another example of this is safety. Today there are so many safety regulations, that many cars produced in other countries have to be modified in order to be sold in the US and meet our strict safety standards. Without these laws, many cars being sold would be unsafe. While you may occasionally read complaints from car enthusiast magazines about how we cannot get certain vehicles because they won't pass US safety standards, Americans as a whole are better off because we have these safety standards, and tens of thousands of Americans owe their lives to the fact that we have such laws. If you have ever been in a serious car accident, you could even be one of them.

Eric5273 · #8 04-03-2008, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quicksilver

Do you honestly believe that the "the governments of the world are going to get together in some sort of coordinated effort to do anything especially something like this?

Is this a trick question?

They already have. 90% of the countries in the world have already agreed and moved forward with this "coordinated effort":

http://unfccc.int/kyoto_protocol/items/2830.php

Your question is kind of like something Stephen Colbert would ask one of his guests in his attempt to be funny and mock them. "Do you honestly believe.....?"

E61Silver · #9 04-03-2008, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric5273

Is this a trick question?

They already have. 90% of the countries in the world have already agreed and moved forward with this "coordinated effort":

http://unfccc.int/kyoto_protocol/items/2830.php

Your question is kind of like something Stephen Colbert would ask one of his guests in his attempt to be funny and mock them. "Do you honestly believe.....?"

Eric he likes to disagree and act superior.

Lets all try to think positively.

X5audi · #10 04-03-2008, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric5273

Is this a trick question?

They already have. 90% of the countries in the world have already agreed and moved forward with this "coordinated effort":

http://unfccc.int/kyoto_protocol/items/2830.php

Your question is kind of like something Stephen Colbert would ask one of his guests in his attempt to be funny and mock them. "Do you honestly believe.....?"

I was thinking the same thing...